Waiting for the old man to post his blind...

[chesspain]

So during my recent week in Florida I'm playing 4/8 on the St. Tropez (rhymes with "grunge-aye"), and it's the final thirty minutes in which we can play before the ship has to cross back into State waters. Not surprisingly, the dealer is trying to deal as many hands as possible to our 6-7 handed table, so as to maximize her earn for the night. Unfortunately, the old man to my right, who joined our game an hour ago after the one-table tourney ended, is sitting with his head lowered, responding slowly, and rarely remembers to post his blinds unless prompted.

So I find myself UTG with a playable hand, and I realize that the old man still hasn't posted. The dealer looks at me and says "Your action."

I look towards the old man and say "He hasn't posted."

The dealer, in a rather hurried and irritated tone, then says something like "Don't worry, I've got it."

To which I just stare at her and say "When the pot's right I'll act."

She then says to the old man in a somewhat louder and sterner voice that he needs to post, which he does, after which I act.

So...was I being a nit, or is it wise to not trust that a harried dealer is going to remember to collect a missing bet at some point before the hand is over?

[detroitplayer]

Not sure what she was waiting for. The second you said he didn't post she should have not responded to you, but to him.

[Swampy]

A blind is a bet, even if it's a forced bet. If the old guy had made a verbal acknowledgment of his obligation to post, it's your action. If not, as seems to be the case here, you'd be acting out of turn if you follow the dealer's instruction. You did the right thing, and the dealer's a tip-grubbing dolt.

[youtalkfunny]

Me? I'm taking the dealer's "I got it" as her accepting the responsibility. At that point, the money is going in the pot, either from the old man's stack, or from her shirt pocket.

[Evan]

You were being a nit.

[The Ocho]

Nit. The blind will get in there. Just act and mention BB hasn't posted yet. That'd be plenty.

[pubz r 4 nubz!]

Don't listen to these jackasses. You were not being a nit. And i'll tell you why. People have been known to decide that they were "done playing," or "sitting out a round" after being dealt the cards for their BB. If a player hasn't posted yet or verbally declared that they are going to post, they have no obligation to post, even if the dealer has dealt them cards, and even if they have looked at those cards.

Good job protecting yourself.

I can understand that some people feel that this type of thing is unlikely to happen, and therefore it's not worth doing what you did--but why not make that decision yourself, since it affects you? Others may feel like nits for doing this, and that's fine--they don't have to. It's your money, and you're following the rules. You're not just being a pedantic bitch, you're trying to protect your interests.

[TomBrooks]

Is it possible that someone could claim a foul and dead hand after the showdown based on the BB not posting?

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
So during my recent week in Florida I'm playing 4/8 on the St. Tropez (rhymes with "grunge-aye"), and it's the final thirty minutes in which we can play before the ship has to cross back into State waters. Not surprisingly, the dealer is trying to deal as many hands as possible to our 6-7 handed table, so as to maximize her earn for the night. Unfortunately, the old man to my right, who joined our game an hour ago after the one-table tourney ended, is sitting with his head lowered, responding slowly, and rarely remembers to post his blinds unless prompted.

So I find myself UTG with a playable hand, and I realize that the old man still hasn't posted. The dealer looks at me and says "Your action."

I look towards the old man and say "He hasn't posted."

The dealer, in a rather hurried and irritated tone, then says something like "Don't worry, I've got it."

To which I just stare at her and say "When the pot's right I'll act."

She then says to the old man in a somewhat louder and sterner voice that he needs to post, which he does, after which I act.

So...was I being a nit, or is it wise to not trust that a harried dealer is going to remember to collect a missing bet at some point before the hand is over?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the way you handled it.

I've been at multiple tables where players have failed to post, been given hands and ended up causing a misdeal and long arguments with the floor when someone had a big hand. You did the dealer and the other players a favor by waiting until the pot was square, especially since it sounds like you were calm and respectful while you did it.

scrub

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
You did the dealer and the other players a favor by waiting until the pot was square

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the dealer has said the money is going in it is going in. The big blind does not have a choice on whether or not to post after he has cards. If it was not clear that he was posting prior to the cards being dealt the cards need to be redealt regardless of what the big blind does. Generally in a small game the casino should make the pot right if the big blind suddenly decides he doesn't want to play. Also in situations like this if the big blind accepts cards in the same manner he has been the entire session and doesn't want to put up his blind he has to cash out and not come back.

Randy Refeld

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You did the dealer and the other players a favor by waiting until the pot was square

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the dealer has said the money is going in it is going in. The big blind does not have a choice on whether or not to post after he has cards. If it was not clear that he was posting prior to the cards being dealt the cards need to be redealt regardless of what the big blind does. Generally in a small game the casino should make the pot right if the big blind suddenly decides he doesn't want to play. Also in situations like this if the big blind accepts cards in the same manner he has been the entire session and doesn't want to put up his blind he has to cash out and not come back.

Randy Refeld

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that's not how the floor *should* handle it--I've seen it go the other way or go the right way and waste a lot of time, though. Chesspain's 5 second pause could have saved 10 minutes of shouting.

scrub

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Chesspain's 5 second pause could have saved 10 minutes of shouting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just finished posting in another thread about inexperienced staff but I have something to add here. A game shoudl never be stopped becasue someoen wants to argue with the floor. The floor should always make a decision and then walk away from the table. Now if someoen wants to argue with him he has to leave the table and the players can continue playing. I have seen many games where someone will be busy stacking chips or whatever so they aren't ready to put up the blind money when the next hand is being dealt. The correct procedure is for the dealer to determine of they want to post before dealing the cards. Normally reminding the dealer is enough; these cruises have a unique problem in that that game is being played with a time restraint.

Randy Refeld

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
A game shoudl never be stopped becasue someoen wants to argue with the floor. The floor should always make a decision and then walk away from the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree in principle, but that's rarely what happens in practice. Players who anticipate potential problems and try to prevent them before they happen go a long way towards making games run faster, especially when cardroom management and staff aren't top-notch.

scrub

[sonoftow]

[ QUOTE ]
To which I just stare at her and say "When the pot's right I'll act."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the only area where I think you erred. Not because of any "nit-ness" but just because it identifies that you have a playable hand.

This is the hardest thing for me as well. Staying calm and drawing no attention to my good or questionable hands at all.

I actually had a kid point out my shaking hand after I showed 4 tens the other night. The rat bastard. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible that someone could claim a foul and dead hand after the showdown based on the BB not posting?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Once there's pre-flop action, that can't be done.

chesspain was right to wait for the big blind to be posted. The old man has no obligation to put the money in the pot. Make him do it first. Then make your action.