I'm frustrated with trying to limp-reraise!

[bvaughn]

After reading about limp-reraising with big hands like AA, KK and AKs, and reviewing my PokerStat database (and finding that I practically never do it), I decided to implement the limp-reraise into my game. Of course, I'm sure that 15-30 is not the best place to "try new stuff", but I've been trying it in my lower limit games as well. I'm frustrated because it feels as though I am losing lots of money on this play by letting marginal hands in for one bet and getting beat by these marginal hands .

So, my question is - where is the +EV in these plays? I realize that the posted hand is just a bad beat, but I don't think my opponent would have even been in there with 10 4off had I raised preflop.

Does anyone (perhaps PeterRus, with his new PS queries) have a breakdown of BB/Hand for AA/KK/AKs to look at profit of raising vs. limp (with intention to raise) + limp-reraising?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 4d Th (two pair, tens and fours).
Hero has Ah Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 13 BB. </font>

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hoenstly if you never limp-reraised in your life it wouldn't make a difference in your overall winrate.

but the best time to do it is if the table is very aggressive. yes i know party 15 games are aggressive in nature, but in order to successfully limp-reraise the table has to be even more aggressive than normal because you have to ensure yourself a raise is coming a far greater percentage of times. also if there's a mega-preflopLAG to your left, then thats good too.

another time to do it perhaps is in an incredibly tight table (which occurs from time to time at higher stakes) where early position raises get too much respect. limping in just for the sake of getting some action is fine there. but this is almost never ever the case at party 15/30.

[eugeneel123]

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I think limpraising should not be done at all at least at levels above 5-10. It makes you soo much more readable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree you get plenty of action if you limp-reraise with a big hand in the Party 15/30. It's not my normal play but I do use it some of the time.

[Levi King]

The limp-re is a great move if you are reasonably certain that there will be a raise behind you. On passive tables it's an extremely bad idea. You don't limp because you want an additional player or two to come in for one bet, you limp because you want a player in later position to raise so you can re-raise and trap limpers for some extra bets.

I, BTW, would never limp-re AKs. Only AA UTG and UTG+1, KK UTG and only on a table with a couple of aggressive players.

[edtost]

what if the lrr is done with a range of hands that includes hands wholly different from aa, kk, etc? (eg 89s)

while i'm not a fan of it, i think something like that could be honed into a profitable strategy.

[bobbyi]

Limp-reraising is a deception play. The main benefit of limping with monsters is to provide your cover for the times you limp with weak hands. If you never limp UTG with hands like AA, your opponents may figure out that whenever you limp it means that you are weak, and they will isolation-raise mercilessly. If you rarely limp with "bad" hands, I wouldn't bother limping with AA either. If you think that your opponents aren't observant enough to notice and fear that you have AA when you limp in the future, I wouldn't bother. The only exception would be if there is an aggressive player (or several) behind me who will frequently raise if I limp but will rarely three-bet if I raise.