*Grumble Grumble*

[Nick709]

I limp in and call a late positoin raise, the entire table has been very loose and aggro for the past twenty hands or so. I was one of the ones putting in the raises here, button is villain guy putting in the other raises, the others are just calling. Slow down anywhere?

My hand 2345 (suits not important)
Flop A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Capped 5 ways
Turn 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif capped 4 ways(one dropped out after 2 raises)
River 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Capped 3 way (One all in after 2 raises)
Final board
A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Me: boat and wheel
Goober: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifx /images/graemlins/diamond.gifxx
Villain: A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
All-in: Don't remember but nothing close to resembling a hand
Me /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[lighterjobs]

if the others at the table are being aggressive, then i wouldn't see any reason for slowing down.

[Moneyline]

Pre-flop: Unless the hand was double suited, I would not want to play this hand in an aggressive game except from late position for a single bet (or maybe an open-raise from lp if I thought I might be able to take the blinds).

Flop: Wow, this flop really sucked, huh? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Turn & River: I don't think you can anticipate or be afraid of straight flushes lurking around. You still probably didn't lose too much even though you got quartered.

I think the main problem with this hand is preflop...

[Nick709]

It was DS, and I think you may undervalue connecting low cards like these especially a hand like 2345.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
It was DS

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I would have done the same (FWIW)

[ QUOTE ]
I think you may undervalue connecting low cards like these especially a hand like 2345.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite possible... My thinking on 2345 is mainly influenced by Bill Boston's book. According to his numbers, 2345 rainbow is -EV, and single suited it is only slightly +EV. Since his simulations don't take position into account, I think the low value his sims show for this hand can be attributed to the times when you limp (usually up front) and it gets raised behind you. The value, IMO, is when you can get in for 1 bet. I don't doubt his data (especially for tight, ring games), but it is definitely possible that I have misinterpreted his data and my analysis is incorrect.

[Nick709]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was DS

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I would have done the same (FWIW)

[ QUOTE ]
I think you may undervalue connecting low cards like these especially a hand like 2345.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite possible... My thinking on 2345 is mainly influenced by Bill Boston's book. According to his numbers, 2345 rainbow is -EV, and single suited it is only slightly +EV. Since his simulations don't take position into account, I think the low value his sims show for this hand can be attributed to the times when you limp (usually up front) and it gets raised behind you. The value, IMO, is when you can get in for 1 bet. I don't doubt his data (especially for tight, ring games), but it is definitely possible that I have misinterpreted his data and my analysis is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose you may be right considering the very aggresive nature of the game I was in I should probably have waited for position to play a hand like this.
Who is Bill Boston and where would I find his book?

[Moneyline]

Omaha High-Low: Play to Win With the Odds by Bill Boston is a collection of statistical data compiled from Wilson's Turbo Omaha 8. The simulations were all done against tight line-ups in full ring games.

IMO there are some flaws with the book, but I think the flaws are more in Boston's interpretation of the data rather than with the data itself. It's by no means a book to blindly follow, but if you have a reasonable head on your shoulders (and it seems like you do) it isn't that hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

The book isn't widely available, but you can get it from the Gambler's Book Shop (www.gamblersbook.com) and from the publisher (www.pokerbooks.com). Conjelco probably has it too. IIRC there were some minor statistical problems with the earliest editions of the book. I have the 7th edition which I believe is the most current.

[Nick709]

Thanks.
Just to return the favour if you haven't read Super System 2 or Hilo split poker for advanced players I highly reccomend those as good O8 texts

[Yads]

Nah, Sucks that you got 3-quartered, but at least the dead money in there allowed you to minimize your loss.