I like poker so I'm going to quit school.

[Tyler Durden]

Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[daryn]

it's kinda dumb, and yes the numbers are staggering.

[A_C_Slater]

What are the numbers exactly? Where are you getting this information? Is this from all the "going pro" posts you see on here? Is this being reported in Time magazine? I need specifics!

[HDPM]

Unbelievably idiotic.

Particularly when you can still clock lots of hours online when you are in school. Unless you are in a hard core major, in which case the decision is all the more idiotic.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
What are the numbers exactly? Where are you getting this information? Is this from all the "going pro" posts you see on here? Is this being reported in Time magazine? I need specifics!

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm going by people i know in real life, and people i know from 2+2.

[Ponks]

I agree too, and I'm sure I could make over 200k if I didnt go to classes. There's more to life then poker and having money when you're young, including having a good education and having fun with friends.

Ponks

[fnord_too]

Hell, I'm hoping poker gets me back to school for a PhD sooner. College is the greatest time ever, and it actually yields long term benefits to boot!

[Schneids]

Milo told me something along the lines of "you're talking about the EV of a lifetime here" when I mentioned to him that I was considering taking a semester or two off for poker. I know where you're coming from. The games are good now. They're going to get tougher.

Poker is the short term though. You're probably going to need your education someday. If you manage your time well you can probably get 15-20 hours in per week playing if you really try to, w/o sacrificing your school work... If you quit and were a fulltime pro are you really going to play 30-40hrs per week? Have you ever tried doing that for a long period of time and do you know if you're capable of that? It isn't easy. If you quit your poker playing hours will probably increase only a little bit and you'll just become lazier with everything else in life...

Keep the big picture in focus Tyler, stay in school.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are the numbers exactly? Where are you getting this information? Is this from all the "going pro" posts you see on here? Is this being reported in Time magazine? I need specifics!

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm going by people i know in real life, and people i know from 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I deem your sample size ------ Insufficient!

[Tyler Durden]

I know a few people that have dropped out to play cards and I've read about a bunch on this site.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep the big picture in focus Tyler, stay in school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I graduated college in 2002.

[Sponger15SB]

My reasoning for dropping out of school would be because i absolutely hate school, and have something to make money with for at least the time being.

Not because I just love poker, because I don't.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep the big picture in focus Tyler, stay in school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I graduated college in 2002.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whooops. I read the subject line and responded. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

I didn't drop out of school to play poker. I was already out of it when I started playing seriously. In general, I'd have to say I do agree with what you're saying though. The fact that my brain is nodding along with you while I'm still not in school probably says something about my procastination/laziness I guess. : /

GoT

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
My reasoning for dropping out of school would be because i absolutely hate school, and have something to make money with for at least the time being.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then, what?

[Ulysses]

I think it's great. In a few years we will have a nice crop of very experienced dealers in the cardrooms. Nice to have dealers who have played a lot of poker.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Milo told me something along the lines of "you're talking about the EV of a lifetime here" when I mentioned to him that I was considering taking a semester or two off for poker. I know where you're coming from. The games are good now. They're going to get tougher.

[/ QUOTE ]

I finished school.

That being said, I don't think taking a semester or two off is necessarily terrible, provided that you're mature enough to go back to school afterwards. Money that you invest early is worth more than than money you earn later, and taking a semester off from school is not going to impact your income potential in a real job. Lots of people take time off for all sorts of reasons.

That being said, if you're happy in school and like your social life, the fun you'll have is worth way more than the extra money.

scrub

[LALDAAS]

I cant see why anyone would drop out of school, If so your a tool.

I for one would never leave my job for it, for one I suck, well not really but I am still a novice.

However I have been thinking about how long does everyone think the online scene will stay profitable for. This fad will end sooner or later and all that will be left are the sharks.

Comments?

[daryn]

everyone who says poker will cease to become profitable is way off i think. that's NOT the reason you shouldn't be dropping out of school.

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&amp;Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is stupid. I actually haven't been able to play poker lately because I am busy finishing up my last semester of law school (thank God!) and looking for a job. It's been about 2 months since I played.

But back to point, I, too, notice people who play for a month and win at 1/2 and think they can do that to live comfortably. I think online poker (live is different) is a great source of supplemental income, but for most people it is not wise to do it full time. especially since you read half of ToP and won 600 at 2/4 in 2 months.

-AA

[LALDAAS]

I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's great. In a few years we will have a nice crop of very experienced dealers in the cardrooms. Nice to have dealers who have played a lot of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice.

[bogey]

I think kids should stay in college, but more so for the college experience than the necessary lifetime EV. The amount of money kids are making now playing poker is sometime 4 to 5 times they would be making coming out of college with a degree.

Being able to make that kind of money in the short term opens up longer term entrepenuarial goals and a greater chance at real wealth than slaving it out for the man getting a $4k raise every year.

They can always take the money they made playing poker and go back and get a good education later too and do anything.

Now that being said, each case is different and I feel a lot of people may be making a mistake doing it, but for some, its probably a good idea. Think of is this way, a lot of lawyers graduating a top law school and working for a good law firm for over 5 years can be expecting to be earning $200k a year. Some kids are doing that now, without all the time investment, with more free time, and without paying $150k on top of college for law school.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
However I have been thinking about how long does everyone think the online scene will stay profitable for. This fad will end sooner or later and all that will be left are the sharks.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if the first prostitutes thought "Wow, I wonder how long guys will keep paying us for sex!"

[astroglide]

i didn't even go to college and i think dropping out for online poker (or any other career-dropping move without an ability to reasonably succeed in poker's absence) is a profoundly retarded idea

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's great. In a few years we will have a nice crop of very experienced dealers in the cardrooms. Nice to have dealers who have played a lot of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually doubt most people dropping out of school to play poker will be well qualified to deal. Well, apart from speaking the languagae.

scrub

[Poker Chief]

Who the Fvck cares what you think? It isn't your choice and you don't have to deal with it.

[johnnycakes]

[ QUOTE ]

I for one would never leave my job for it,

[/ QUOTE ]

I would. I absolutely hate my job.
I hate sitting in this cube in a windowless room under florescent lights for 8 hours a day.

In fact, my goal this year is to quit my job. August is the target month. But I will only actually quit if I have a funds in the bank/roll to live for a year.

Hopefully I'll make enough money at poker that I can do something else in the near future. I'm not sure what that is yet. It could be going back to school. It could be opening my own Subway franchise (cheap). I'll never go back to IT, and if at all possible, I'll be my own boss.

[JoeC]

I set a rule early on that I'm not going to leave school unless I can make 500k annually.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant see why anyone would drop out of school, If so your a tool.


[/ QUOTE ]

my friend dropped out his sophmore year of college. Now he pulls in 6 figures. His kind are rare though.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&amp;Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I graduated college, so this isn't defensive. But you're right, online poker won't be here forever. College will, though.


That said, I would never have left college to play simply because I loved my college experience. The opportunity cost is obvious, though. If you can make significant money playing, and it won't be around forever, then you are making a financial mistake by not playing. That said, I think a lot of people overestimate their EV int heir decisions to drop out.
-James

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I cant see why anyone would drop out of school, If so your a tool.


[/ QUOTE ]

my friend dropped out his sophmore year of college. Now he pulls in 6 figures. His kind are rare though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for him. I shouldn't talk much though. I never even went to collage. I pulled 72k this year though. I worked my way up the ladder from a pee-on.

Collage just wasnt for me, If I had gone I am sure all I would have done was drink and party.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&amp;Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I graduated college, so this isn't defensive. But you're right, online poker won't be here forever. College will, though.


That said, I would never have left college to play simply because I loved my college experience. The opportunity cost is obvious, though. If you can make significant money playing, and it won't be around forever, then you are making a financial mistake by not playing. That said, I think a lot of people overestimate their EV int heir decisions to drop out.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]
Also, let's be honest here. Of course you can always go back to college, but there is a tremendous amount you're losing if you're graduating from school in your thirties as opposed to your early twenties. Also, there's absolutely no guarantee of you returning to school successfully and for sure as hell no guarantee of any sort of win rate playing poker. Your gain by dropping out and playing poker better be VERY high in order to make up for this.

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong about this. Casinos just come up with new ways to make card counting impossible. Such as the 6 deck shuffle master. Many casinos are offering single deck BJ with a payoff of 6/5 for a natural. Anyone that plays this game should have their head examined. One casino I know of has recently adopted the oddest rule I have come across ever. No mid-entry on a 6 deck SHOE game! People are still playing however.
Blackjack remains the most popular table game and I don't think its going anywhere.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong about this. Casinos just come up with new ways to make card counting impossible. Such as the 6 deck shuffle master. Many casinos are offering single deck BJ with a payoff of 6/5 for a natural. Anyone that plays this game should have their head examined. One casino I know of has recently adopted the oddest rule I have come across ever. No mid-entry on a 6 deck SHOE game! People are still playing however.
Blackjack remains the most popular table game and I don't think its going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it was sarcasm

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong about this. Casinos just come up with new ways to make card counting impossible. Such as the 6 deck shuffle master. Many casinos are offering single deck BJ with a payoff of 6/5 for a natural. Anyone that plays this game should have their head examined. One casino I know of has recently adopted the oddest rule I have come across ever. No mid-entry on a 6 deck SHOE game! People are still playing however.
Blackjack remains the most popular table game and I don't think its going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it was sarcasm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sarcasm works soooo well as text on forums on the internet.
Maybe if I really cared enough to read 3/4 of the replys in these threads I would get your humor.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's great. In a few years we will have a nice crop of very experienced dealers in the cardrooms. Nice to have dealers who have played a lot of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]

I shouldn't talk much though. I never even went to collage.

[/ QUOTE ]

classic

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems shortsighted. Of course, some aspects of holding down a "normal" job suck, but on the whole, for those people that are not extraordinary poker talents, it'll be easier making $X working and $Y on the side than $(X+Y) strictly playing poker. (...not to mention the side benefits, medical/dental/401k, easier to get loans, etc, that have been mentioned ad nauseum)

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this an argument in favor of dropping out? Er, not dropping out but taking time off. Play poker now while the games are so good and go back to school when the games go bad. School will always be there although I don't think I would want to be like in my thirties when I went back so I guess if I was going to take time off from school I'd do it for a maximum of 2 years.

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems shortsighted. Of course, some aspects of holding down a "normal" job suck, but on the whole, for those people that are not extraordinary poker talents, it'll be easier making $X working and $Y on the side than $(X+Y) strictly playing poker. (...not to mention the side benefits, medical/dental/401k, easier to get loans, etc, that have been mentioned ad nauseum)

[/ QUOTE ]

a 9-5 is definetaly safer for us non prodigies

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong about this. Casinos just come up with new ways to make card counting impossible. Such as the 6 deck shuffle master. Many casinos are offering single deck BJ with a payoff of 6/5 for a natural. Anyone that plays this game should have their head examined. One casino I know of has recently adopted the oddest rule I have come across ever. No mid-entry on a 6 deck SHOE game! People are still playing however.
Blackjack remains the most popular table game and I don't think its going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it was sarcasm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sarcasm works soooo well as text on forums on the internet.
Maybe if I really cared enough to read 3/4 of the replys in these threads I would get your humor.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you serious? it was fairly obvious i was using sarcasm (which i don't like to use often, i think it is way overused) to refute the previous poster's statement that people will get sick of losing $$$ and either quit or become better at poker.


you must be very dim.

unless your post was some kind of triple reverse sarcasm! wow, then you really got me good.

[pubz r 4 nubz!]

not just insufficient size--insufficiently random. anyone who thinks this is a good random sample should take some time off with some beads.

http://www.the-clitoris.com/1r4/toys2/a944x.jpg

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
not just insufficient size--insufficiently random. anyone who thinks this is a good random sample should take some time off with some beads.

http://www.the-clitoris.com/1r4/toys2/a944x.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, I think you have an anal bead fetish

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am talkin about all the chumps sitting there watching ESPN and the WSOP and then loggin in to party on a wish and a hope. yokin out there credit cards just to lose $100 sooner or later this crowd is 1) going to give up 2) actually learn how to play.

I think this fad isnt going any where any time soon nor will it ever competely dry up however I do belive it will thin out.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah.. in other news, casinos will no longer offer blackjack. it just simply isn't profitable for them anymore. they should've listened to the analyst who told them years ago:

"these people aren't going to keep coming to our casino and losing $100 playing blackjack. sooner or later they are going to give up, or start counting cards, then we're cooked."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong about this. Casinos just come up with new ways to make card counting impossible. Such as the 6 deck shuffle master. Many casinos are offering single deck BJ with a payoff of 6/5 for a natural. Anyone that plays this game should have their head examined. One casino I know of has recently adopted the oddest rule I have come across ever. No mid-entry on a 6 deck SHOE game! People are still playing however.
Blackjack remains the most popular table game and I don't think its going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it was sarcasm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sarcasm works soooo well as text on forums on the internet.
Maybe if I really cared enough to read 3/4 of the replys in these threads I would get your humor.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you serious? it was fairly obvious i was using sarcasm (which i don't like to use often, i think it is way overused) to refute the previous poster's statement that people will get sick of losing $$$ and either quit or become better at poker.


you must be very dim.

unless your post was some kind of triple reverse sarcasm! wow, then you really got me good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, your wit and humor is just to far beyond me. I'm outta here.

Seeing that I am in the business however, I have heard talk of casinos looking for ways to alter the game of blackjack to increase the house edge or eliminate it altogether due to low profit margin. Your post wasn't the super sarcastic genious you seem to think.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Your post wasn't the super sarcastic genious you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it was.

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your post wasn't the super sarcastic genious you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go huff some paint.

[bholdr]

Nobody ever considers taking the middle road. Why not drop down to ten credits and play poker in the extra 10 hours or so a week you'd get from letting one class go?

from what i gather, an oneline pro tops out around 20-30 hours a week, if a college kid wanted to become such a pro, they're already probably playing 10 or 20.


also, for those not in college and considering going pro, why not just get a job that works with poker? working in a cardroom, working from home...

I manage an apartment building, this takes about ten hours a week, and gets me a free place and a little salary. I also run a (semi-)successfull part time housepainting bussiness in the summers and teach skiing part time in the winters. none of the desicions to take these jobs were motivated by poker (i only pull in about 1k/mo playung), but they work really well with my new (thankfully, profitable) hobby.

I'm sure that there are many simaler jobs out there that would benifit an online player greatly.

Hopefully, if i keep winning, I'll be able to go back to school a year or so ahead of schedule. strange that i'm playing to get in college, while others are leaving to play.

[Michael Davis]

Obviously this post isn't directed at me, but if it matters, my dropping out (already finished undergrad) is unrelated to poker. It is nice to have poker as a safety net for now, though. It sure makes being unemployed a lot easier.

-Michael

[bholdr]

oh yeah there's this too: poker hasn't gotten me laid yet, either. college did about once a week. consider that.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I can’t see why anyone would drop out of school, If so your a tool.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dropped out of college after 3 months. Why? I didn't particularly care for studying, I had to be free. Boy was that a mistake. I didn't know that I was intelligent (some would disagree, and they are probably right when looked at from their perspective) until a year or two later. I was too busy smoking dope and drinking in the park to think about the future.

Now 16 years later I look back at the mistakes I made. If I could re-live that portion of my life I would have gone to law school, and entered into politics. I've been one lucky SOB in business, but success is fleeting when you don't have a career to fall back on. I cannot walk into a corporate job by submitting my resume to Human Resources, I will forever be bound to working with people I know who trust me and my experience regardless of my schooling (or lack there of).

In short I have been lucky so far, but it wasn't worth the risk. Stay in school, study hard, and prepare yourself for the future. Make sure you interface with many people who can help you after you graduate, I regret that the school support system of your peers is something I never had access to. Just whatever you do don't make the same mistakes I did.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Jim Kuhn]

[ QUOTE ]
I set a rule early on that I'm not going to leave school unless I can make 500k annually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you and my great grandchildren are joining the workforce together!

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Punker]

I don't think its so bad. In 1998, I suspect a lot of Computing Science majors dropped out to pick up Y2K cash because it was a short term opportunity to make money, and they can go back. Pro athletes do it all the time.

At present, it may be that this is a short term opportunity for people to make a lot of money. I would never call someone idiotic for choosing that over passing it up; you can always go back to school and, in my experience, the "drinking and partying" aspect of university was heavily overrated.

I know a lot of people who would have been much better off making 50 or 60 thousand after high school, and THEN starting university a couple of years later, when they were ready to handle it, financially and maturity wise.

[johnnybeef]

its working great for me. although, poker started out as a hobby for me. it just turned out that i was making a hell of a lot more $ then by waiting tables in less time. the rest is as they say...history

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&amp;Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'll take my 18 year old traveling/poker experiences over my friends driving their parents car to college and drinking beer and watching football experiences any day of the week.

[nongice626]

wp

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

The # of college kids dropping out to play cards on the internet/in B&amp;Ms is staggering.

Online poker ain't gonna be here forever kids.

It just seems really stupid and sickening. But I'm willing to listen.

[/ QUOTE ]

you need a general standard. its kinda hard to rationalize not making 100K/year playing a game you love.

[pubz r 4 nubz!]

Man, if that's what you think, maybe you should just relax with a friend and some anal beads, it'll change your whole perspective on life.

http://www.the-clitoris.com/1r4/toys2/a944x.jpg

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant see why anyone would drop out of school, If so your a tool.
...

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, you're ignorant. I dropped out of school and helped start three software companies. I've been able to support myself fairly well. There are few college computer science professors that I would hire for any role in my development organisations. And there are many people, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc, have done even better than I without degrees.

You should realize that college degree is just a piece of paper. In life your pay will usually be closely related to your actual work contributions, not what classes you took or school you graduated from. Don't get me wrong, college is a great place to learn, but it's not the only place.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

<font color="white"> .
.
.
.
.</font>
&lt;----------


I just need to take 1 class, yet ive been slacking for 3 years now.


Of course my BA will be 99% worthless in the real world.

[SuitedSixes]

What's next? They're going to skip college to play in the NBA? What is this world coming to?

[mythrilfox]

I just wanted to point out that we are all very demented for using the term "lifetime EV."

[partygirluk]

When you say the numbers are staggering, just how high are they?

Correct me if anything that I say is wrong:

i) Most "pros" play 15/30 Party.
ii) There are about 40 tables of 15/30 typically running.
iii) Each table can support about 2 pros.
iv) So 80 pros. But some 4 table or 8 table, so lets say more like 30.
iv) Each pro plays for about 1/5 of the week. So there are 150 "full time pros" playing PP 15/30.

Now, there will be pros who play on other sites, other stakes, other forms of poker etc. But some of the people who are beating 15/30 at a rate to earn a living, will not be "full time pros". And some of the full time pros will not be college drop outs.

So when you say staggering, how many &lt; 23 yr olds do you think there are who are full time pros? I would guesstimate 200-250. Which in the entire world, does not stagger me.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
i) Most "pros" play 15/30 Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would guess that less than 2% of all poker plays spend more than 50% of their time playing poker at Party 15/30.

I think your 200-250 figure is a significant underestimate.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem idiotic to anyone else? Or is it just me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it would be an idiotic choice for you, but it certainly was the correct choice for me. I have no doubts about this. The first thing you have to realize, is that people have very different goals in life. Let me rattle off a few statements, mostly about myself, and I think you will find it hard to disagree with more than 3 of these points, and find it even harder to claim that I made the wrong choicewithout disagreeing with at least 3 of these points.

1. I currently have very little motivation to receive good grades.
2. I hate going to class.
3. I hate doing homework.
4. I hate studying.
5. I hate taking tests.
6. I would rather kill myself than spend the next 10 years of my life as an architect, a doctor, a lawyer, a politician, a writer, or any of the other jobs that I would need a diploma to aspire to.
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".
8. Although I hate learning in the school environment, I love learning on my own, mostly via reading.
9. I have had sleep issues my entire life, and conforming to a sleep schedule necessary for school is very tough for me, and often excruciatingly painful.
10. I am intelligent enough that without poker, I could find multiple ways to make &gt; $100,000 per year, none of which require a diploma.
11. Throughout my life, my life has been extroadinarily better during breaks away from school (and it's not remotely close).
12. I have matured far faster than I should have, and typical 19 year olds sometimes bore me.
13. I think conforming to the standards of society is often a mistake caused by lack of individual thinking.
14. Dropping out of school has given me many oppurtunities such as the ability to travel Europe (I'm in amsterdam right now), play in EPT's, and move to LA (happening in March/April), etc. While some of these things are doable while in school, they are much easier without it.
15. I will have less trouble than most people to return to school if it becomes necessary, or my goals in life drastically change.
16. I enjoy poker very much, and even after playing 7,000 hands in a losing day filled with bad beats, I still look forward to my next session.
17. I am able to prioritize very well, including between poker and my social life.
18. I am capable of making a lot of money from poker, and it is very unlikely that I will net less than 500k in the next 4 years. If you think that this figure is too high, you should know that my actual goal is much higher, and I am not the type of person to overestimate in this area.
19. When online poker dries up, I will have enough money to last for several years, and I will be able to go back to school if it turns out that I can't infact make 100k / year elsewhere (very unlikely).
20. My life is currently the best it has ever been, and I have no reason to believe that this won't last.

I'm sure I'm forgetting many things, but you have to realize, everyone isn't the same. The poker lifestyle is perfect for my abilities, my philosophies, and my personality, and I am very capable of succeeding at this lifestyle. Far less than .01% of students are dropping out of college for poker, so it's safe to assume, that unlike you, these people are not satisfied with a "normal" lifestyle, and they want something different.

I am by no means implying that most of these dropouts are capable of maintaining the same standard of living that I expect to have for the rest of my life, but you have to realize that different people, have different capabilities, and different goals in life, and these people dropping out of college, they are the exceptions to the rules.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".

[/ QUOTE ]
This is just clearly untrue. I'm not sure if there was a hint of sarcasm here or if you really believe this is the case but I would be pretty surprised if it was the latter. My disagreement with this point has nothing to do with how intelligent you are since I've never met/talked to you, its just a pretty clear fact imo. While you may be able to go to the library and figure out specific facts you may need to know for whatver reason I do not think that you can learn everything you would've learned in college via that method. This is particularly true because, in my experience at least, so much of what I've learned at college has not come in a classroom or from a book but rather from the collection of people that are available to me here (both student and faculty) that you would be hard pressed to find for $1.50.



Note that I'm not writing this to tell you that dropping out of school was a mistake for you. I don't really care or have the position to make an opinion on that either way. From what I can tell through this site you are a smart guy and I would say you more than likely made the right decision for you. But I do not think that the point I highlighted above is true, even in the slightest.

[ZeeJustin]

I certainly learned a lot about people during my semester at UMD, but 95% of what I learned was in the first couple of weeks. Sure there are some things left to learn, but none of them can be too crucial, and none of them will outweight the learning experiences I will gain without school. A month in Europe is extremely educational for an American no matter what aproach is taken about it.

Anyway, you can categorize the things you learn in school into those things you intentionally learn, and those things you accidentally learn. It is those things that you intentionally learn that I was referring to in point 7. And again, I will learn more via the accidental approach without school (IMHO).

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
It is those things that you intentionally learn that I was referring to in point 7. And again, I will learn more via the accidental approach without school (IMHO).

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it just depends on what you want to do. You clearly want to do different things with your life than I do (Not meant to sounds condescending if it did). For what I want/need to be learning right now college is really the only choice. I just would not be able to learn the things I need to (or at least not those that I would like to and have a chance to by going to a good school) by reading a few books on my own.

This is not to say that I don't share a lot of the complaints that you had. I am not particularly fond of doing homework or waking up on a schedule either.

Anyway, I hope it works out for you and I would guess that it will. Good luck.

[MicroBob]

Great post Zee.

I am with you on many of those things...except 10 and 12.

I don't know where else I would be able to make significant money...but perhaps I underestimate my abilities to do this if I was truly motivated.

And I definitely didn't mature fast for my age. I'm 34 now and pretty much still act like a 12-year-old half the time.


13, 16, 17 and 20 I am particularly in agreement with.

I am also very much with you on 8 and 9.



I do agree with Tyler that many of the posts of young 'uns going 'pro' are kind of silly....but the big reason I think that is because there is usually something in those posts (frequentl coming from new posters) that indicates very obviously that this person shouldn't be doing this yet.

Usually it's something of the "I am winning 4BB/100 at 2/4 for my last 30k hands and I know I can keep this same win-rate no matter what level I play" or some other such nonsense.



I do believe that college can actually be overrated for some.
Somebody posted about the freedom he gets compared with the college experience of drinking beer and going to football games and I thought that was a valid viewpoint.


I also think that for many the whole college-degree could be over-rated.
There was an article in time magazine (I got it for free when I ordered basketball tix online) on the 'Twixters' a few weeks ago
...those in their mid to late 20's who are kinda slow to "grow up".

It used to be that marriage at 22 years-old was common-place. The average age for first marriages is steadily rising.
But...mostly....the article was about a bunch of 23-28 year-olds who have college-degrees that don't really mean very much in the real world, don't know what they want to do anyway or where they want to go, and certainly aren't ready to settle down in some mundane job where they'll be stuck for the next 20 years.


It was a fairly interesting article and I believe it applies to a couple of frequent posters around here (Daryn and homer come to mind just based on things they have posted in the past....but I'm sure there are others).


I was very different from them in some respects (and very similar in others).
I went into a job post college that I thoroughly enjoyed even though it paid virtually nothing.

Some of my friends in college were jealous of me because I was so directed with what I wanted to do even though I knew it wouldn't make me rich.

being poor kind of sucks....but I was generally happy and had a great support system. And there's nothing that can take the place of a job you TRULY love and are looking forward to doing every single freaking day.


I've had other jobs out of necessity where I worked in a cubicle...or worked as a security guard from 5a-5p 6 (or even 7) days a week...or put in other long, hard hours of menial-nothingness (including blackjack dealer).
My GF is a nurse at a hospital and puts in 12 hour shifts that really usually go 13+ hours and I honestly don't know how she does it.

same goes for many of the people I have worked with in the menial-nothing jobs who have done it for 20-30 years straight and are feeding their families with that income.

Poker is still a little bit of a work 'grind' for me I suppose.
I mean, if I had $10-zillion to my name I probably wouldn't be wasting nearly as much time online clicking away just for the fun of it.

Most of the time I'm playing I could usually think of something else I'd rather be doing...
But I do still enjoy it quite a bit....and this is after I put in an insane amount of hands this week.


I would be doing this if it only meant I could just barely get by and pay the bills. The flexibility of schedule, portability of the job (I can go on 'vacation' and still take my 'job' with me) and ability to work from home and not have to answer to a total-dick of a boss is incentive enough for me.

I would make about $30k/yr I think if I kept my job as a BJ dealer. Perhaps up to $50k if I had been motivated to learn more (like how to deal craps) and get good enough to get a job at a better casino.
But $30k/yr minimum....so that is all I really need to make via online-poker to make it the obviously better option.

Certainly it becomes an even more obviously better option when it's in the $50-100k and up range.


The fact that I could possibly push $100k/yr or more with online-poker and can live a bit more comfortably than I have in the past is just gravy.


What do you do when the poker-boom crashes?
Ummmm...hopefully you haven't spent all your winnings on BMW's or Honda Civics and actually have a pretty nice cushion. Go back to school....or start your own business if that is of interest....or do whatever it is in life that you think is you calling AND do it in a slightly better financial state than you might have had otherwise.

[Michael Davis]

This post inspired me to finally bite the bullet and drop out.

No, actually, it didn't, but I was hoping if I went broke you would send me a $10 dinner coupon out of guilt.

-Michael

[Al Mirpuri]

[partygirluk]

Hi Evan. I disagree with you on this point.

I went to an excellent university, and got the second top mark in my year. I went to &lt; 1/3 of the lectures, and those that I went to I would often spend talking, doing a crossword, reading a newspaper etc. I have always found I did best when working by myself.

I suspect that to a large extent it depends upon what degree you are doing. My brother got a First Class degree in Maths from the best uni in the country. He did not find lectures useful, because most of the subject was so complicated that he could not digest it in lectures.

For other people/unis/degrees lectures might be more important.

[Evan]

Lectures that are revlevant to my major would be impossible to replace with reading a textbook for a few reasons. I am sure this is not the case for everyone.

[spamuell]

the best uni in the country

I hope you're talking about North of London, not West.

[impecunious]

[ QUOTE ]
Collage just wasnt for me

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Zoltri]

Quit school to play online poker?
Why dont you just put a gun to your head and get it over with.

I'm serious.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
the best uni in the country

I hope you're talking about North of London, not West.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Both are excellent though.

[astroglide]

for your sake i hope you crash and burn quickly zee

[daryn]

i can really only disagree with 10, but even that i don't know about for sure. it's easy to say you are "intelligent enough" to "find a way" to make $100k/yr somehow, even without a college degree. actually doing this may prove to be difficult.

anyway, one thing i know for sure. there are some people that just aren't cut out for college. some of them just aren't intelligent enough, straight up. some of them just shouldn't be there because it's simply not their bag. if they are there, they're not going to try, not going to go to class, do work, etc. they will surely fail out, so why waste the time/money? that is where zee falls in i think from reading his post.

to think that everyone should automatically just enter college and get a degree no matter what is just silly. as for me, i never wanted to go to college when i was in high school. i wasn't interested in any subject, and i decided it would be a waste until i knew what i wanted to study. fortunately when i took high school physics, i decided that that was what i wanted to learn all about. whereas some people just head off to college with money and a job on their minds, i honestly went to college just to learn all i could about physics and the world. good thing i went to college, because it was a blast. not only did i educate myself, but there's just so much else you can get out of college. something about moving out of your house and living in a dorm with a zillion other college kids, it's an experience i wouldn't want to go without.

zee gave it a shot. he went, and genuinely wasn't interested. he may just be part of a small percentage of young kids who college just isn't right for. lucky for him he can pull in a really good amount of income (if only for a limited time).

that being said i really think zee is maybe the exception to the rule. i think the vast majority of kids leaving college for poker specifically are making a big mistake they will most likely regret in the future. but hey, we all make mistakes. i have my own regrets. i could have done a LOT better in college. i mean, i failed classes that i just didn't care about. i wouldn't show up for weeks at a time only to find out i missed a midterm when i did show up. of course those were BS classes like psychology 100 etc., but GPA does not discriminate.

in closing, college is not for everyone, but i still feel a lot of these kids are making serious mistakes they will regret.

[MicroBob]

Really good post D.


And I REALLLLLLY didn't not dislike that bit about the triple-reverse sarcasm.

[Punker]

As stated elsewhere in responses, I think the statement:

"10. I am intelligent enough that without poker, I could find multiple ways to make &gt; $100,000 per year, none of which require a diploma."

Is optimistic. To make that kind of money, you either need a well paying job, or to start your own business. Without a diploma, the job is going to be extremely hard to step into, and starting a business (with no diploma and no work history) is going to mean you'll probably need to be able to front most of the capital yourself, which is a risk in and of itself. As well, most of the things you list as "hating" are the things you need to do to make 100K/yr.

I'm not saying go back to school. I just think you may be underestimating both the difficulties of "regular life" without that piece of paper, and the difficulties in actually learning the required information to get one. I'm sure you know that many employers/investors value the diploma for the knowledge it indicates that you have, but just as much for showing that you can commit to something longterm and complete it.

Your statement about library fees is like saying "I don't need to learn anything about poker. I'll read HEFAP once and then go beat the 30-60 for 1bb/hr". Some people have that innate talent for specific things, and some people are able to pick up on the book learning quickly enough. However, most employers/investors are not going to be eager to let you take your "real life final exam" with their time and money. Say a friend of yours, who you considered intelligent and whom you had full trust in, said this to you and asked you for a 100% full on stake to play 15-30, which you would get half the winnings and eat all of the losses, and he had read all the 2+2 books, but never played a hand of poker in his life. Send him a 300 BB bankroll immediately? I suspect you'd tell him to work his way up himself, and thats the kind of thing you face in real life without a diploma; while it may be that you CAN do it, most people are going to want to see some proof, rather than just trusting you to do it.

If you can bank the money you're talking about, I say go for it. School will be there whenever you're ready. Just don't lock your mindset that "I don't need school and if I go to school, it means I've failed."

[ismisus]

[ QUOTE ]

6. I would rather kill myself than spend the next 10 years of my life as an architect, a doctor, a lawyer, a politician, a writer, or any of the other jobs that I would need a diploma to aspire to.


[/ QUOTE ]

DUH. Play cards or provide benefits to society. No matter how mature you may think you are today, you'll really only find out in a couple years/decades. Think about it, when you were 15, you thought you were mature. Now you look back and laugh at the 15-year old zee. Watch what happens when you're 25. College, unlike poker, can only be done after high school. After that you'll either be too lazy to go back, or be a determined old fart who won't experience true college life.

I don't think any 19-year old is mature enough to decide whether college is worth it or not. Hopefully you'll be mature enough to take what I said seriously. Think about it, most respected people of previous generations went to college. It is where you establish life-lasting bonds, and life-lasting education...

Let me get a litte dramatic here, money isn't everything.

[daryn]

i don't buy that BS about helping society. there are plenty out there who want to do something to help everyone, and that's great. i think it's stupid though to expect that from everyone.

[Ulysses]

Zee,

I largely agree w/ daryn's post. I think higher education is probably just not the thing for you. The US is pretty unique in having this idea/tradition/assumption that most people of a certain social class just naturally go on to college. It definitely isn't the thing for a lot of people.

However, a lot of your post imo just reflects a lack of experience and reflects a lot of feelings that a lot of us had when we were young and as we got older, had more experience, and can look back on those things, upon reflection many seem quite silly. I disagree with a lot of your assumptions. But some of the false assumptions, college wouldn't help you with. Real life experience will.

So, keep on doing what you're doing. Maybe you can't make as much as you think at poker, maybe you can. Maybe you can't make much money doing other stuff, maybe you can. Maybe you'll enjoy poker for a long time, maybe you'll get sick of it. All of these things and many other things you touched on in your post, you'll just figure out over time. I don't think that's a bad thing.

[lapoker17]

I like your 3 or 4 word condescending posts much better.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I like your 3 or 4 word condescending posts much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zee is a good kid. He gets more words.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Zee is a good kid. He gets more words.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif Awwww. Huggles and snuggles to you to, etc.

[Tyler Durden]

Justin, I didn't mean any offense. Yes it is the right decision for some people. But probably not most.

[ZeeJustin]

Anyone that knows me well can tell you that your predictions and advice for me are very off.

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get a litte dramatic here, money isn't everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

This little gem strikes me the most. On my list of concerns about dropping out of college, money wasn't even top 3.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
6. I would rather kill myself than spend the next 10 years of my life as an architect, a doctor, a lawyer, a politician, a writer, or any of the other jobs that I would need a diploma to aspire to.

[/ QUOTE ]



I'm 34-years-old and pretty much in agreement with Zee on this. Not quite as dramatic as 'kill myself' (but this was an exaggeration anyway) but I have never been particularly interested in most traditional occupations. Particularly those of the 9-to-5 (which is likely to actually be 8-to-6) variety.

I do admit to having always been a bit immature about this aspect of life though.


Also - it is actually possible to provide a reasonable benefit to society WHILE being a poker-player as a main occupation.
If I got to the point where I was REALLY comfortable with my $150k/yr income or something like that I could very easily see me doing some volunteer work on the side.


I think Zee's points about travelling to Europe and getting to experience MORE of the real world (not less) outside of college are valid.
There are a couple of things I have been interested in for a long time...but it would be silly to do those things for free when I still need to make sure I'm paying the bills okay.


college is grand fun...and worthwhile in many ways.
But during my 4 years of college I was REALLY disappointed in the quality of many of my classes and teachers and felt at the time that they were pretty much a waste of my time.
I was told that I was just cynical and when I grew older I would realize how important they were.
I'm 34 now and realize EVEN MORE what a waste of time they were (because when I was 20 I actually believed the possibility that I was underestimating the value of some of those worthless classes).

Although there were 6-8 classes in there where the professor and class was so good in inspiring me on the subject matter that I don't feel it's an exaggeration to say that they changed my life and way of thinking permanently.
But 90% of my classes were definitely a total waste of time, effort, and professor-pompousness.


I first agreed with Zee on the idea that you can pretty much get what you need out of the books but I'm going to change my mind here because now that I recall those really good classes I had I have to change my mind a bit on this one.

[Danenania]

For some people, college is a waste of time.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
i can really only disagree with 10, but even that i don't know about for sure. it's easy to say you are "intelligent enough" to "find a way" to make $100k/yr somehow, even without a college degree. actually doing this may prove to be difficult.

anyway, one thing i know for sure. there are some people that just aren't cut out for college. some of them just aren't intelligent enough, straight up. some of them just shouldn't be there because it's simply not their bag. if they are there, they're not going to try, not going to go to class, do work, etc. they will surely fail out, so why waste the time/money? that is where zee falls in i think from reading his post.

to think that everyone should automatically just enter college and get a degree no matter what is just silly. as for me, i never wanted to go to college when i was in high school. i wasn't interested in any subject, and i decided it would be a waste until i knew what i wanted to study. fortunately when i took high school physics, i decided that that was what i wanted to learn all about. whereas some people just head off to college with money and a job on their minds, i honestly went to college just to learn all i could about physics and the world. good thing i went to college, because it was a blast. not only did i educate myself, but there's just so much else you can get out of college. something about moving out of your house and living in a dorm with a zillion other college kids, it's an experience i wouldn't want to go without.

zee gave it a shot. he went, and genuinely wasn't interested. he may just be part of a small percentage of young kids who college just isn't right for. lucky for him he can pull in a really good amount of income (if only for a limited time).

that being said i really think zee is maybe the exception to the rule. i think the vast majority of kids leaving college for poker specifically are making a big mistake they will most likely regret in the future. but hey, we all make mistakes. i have my own regrets. i could have done a LOT better in college. i mean, i failed classes that i just didn't care about. i wouldn't show up for weeks at a time only to find out i missed a midterm when i did show up. of course those were BS classes like psychology 100 etc., but GPA does not discriminate.

in closing, college is not for everyone, but i still feel a lot of these kids are making serious mistakes they will regret.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post.

scrub

[Jack of Arcades]

I'm not dropping out because I genuinely enjoy the college atmosphere and what I want for my life is to become a teacher. I don't doubt that I could support myself playing poker given sufficient time but I'm not interested in doing so. Poker will get me through college and will be a nice second job for me. Keywords of that sentence are "for me," no doubt for others it's different.

However, it is getting ridiculous now that most jobs are requiring more and more education. Unless we reverse the trend the average job will require 8-10 years of college. Ridiculous.

[Al P]

Make sure you balance your social life and don't turn down friends who want to party on a Friday night just because you earn .22 more BB/100 on Friday nights.

I went back to college and got my 2nd degree at age 29. Basically had to start off at entry level salaries again but it didn't bother me one bit. Plus those 18 year old honeys looked that much sweeter at 27-29 than they did the first time when I was 18-21 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[B Dids]

The problem with college is that we take young people who aren't always equpped to make huge life change decisions and put them into a situation where they have to make several.

Given more life experience, I wouldn't have made many of the decisions that I made when I was in school. (I'm like Piz- 5 credits short of a degree). Just sucked that I was 18 at the time I didn't have a clue how to function as an adult (but I sure thought I did, and when I was 18 I would have said many of the sames thinks that Zee did in his post).

[snowbank]

for your sake i hope you crash and burn quickly zee

was that supposed to be a joke? If it wasn't, why do you say that?

[sublime]

bob-

can i have the cliff notes version of your posts from now on?

thanks

[astroglide]

i wasn't joking. i think he has a myopic, naive, overly optimistic outlook on whatever. i like the guy and wish him well so i hope that whatever bad thing will happen will happen quickly so he can develop some sort of base structure. i'm not talking about a law degree or anything, and like i said i didn't even go to college. but i think you have to "just figure it out once it happens" at least once before you can expect to do that and succeed.

[sublime]

i like the guy and wish him well so i hope that whatever bad thing will happen will happen quickly so he can develop some sort of base structure

is this in reference to strictly financial issues? or are you reffering to something morbid happening to zee (or somebody he loves) that he may not be able to cope with due to his general optimistic outlook on life?

[snowbank]

i wasn't joking. i think he has a myopic, naive, overly optimistic outlook on whatever. i like the guy and wish him well so i hope that whatever bad thing will happen will happen quickly so he can develop some sort of base structure. i'm not talking about a law degree or anything, and like i said i didn't even go to college. but i think you have to "just figure it out once it happens" at least once before you can expect to do that and succeed.

I don't understand why you want him to fail. I am not attacking your post, I am genuinly interested. If he's happy doing what he's doing, that's awesome. Most people get a job just to have one, and try and hang on to it until retirement. Zee's route seems like it will continue to enable him to enjoy his life.

[sublime]

don't understand why you want him to fail. I am not attacking your post, I am genuinly interested. If he's happy doing what he's doing, that's awesome. Most people get a job just to have one, and try and hang on to it until retirement. Zee's route seems like it will continue to enable him to enjoy his life.

i dont think he wants him to fail, or is wishing anything bad on him at all.

[astroglide]

career/stability in general

[astroglide]

i think it's more about enjoying his present than enjoying his life. we all live in the present tense but we end up needing the past to support ourselves.

[sublime]

career/stability in general

i may be mistaken, but i am pretty sure you play for a living. granted you are probably one of the best internet players around, but what do you have to fall back on that zee doesnt? or is that you are not as optimistic about the future of online poker or didnt give up as much az zee did?

[snowbank]

i think it's more about enjoying his present than enjoying his life. we all live in the present tense but we end up needing the past to support ourselves.

So you're just talking about him investing his winnings for his future and making sure he doesn't spend it? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[astroglide]

i only play 60 hours per month. i have a full-time job as a network engineer for a grid/cluster software development company and self-employment on the side doing IT consulting for property development and venture capital businesses (some of the best ones for referrals and meeting other business owners). i will do singleton work for whoever but i only keep on call with people who are seriously low maintenance.

it's almost a coinflip moneywise between my jobs and poker, but any two of the three sources of income i have could drop out and i could focus on the remaining one. i don't think online poker is going to last in its present, easy state much longer. that will actually make me happy because i'm pretty sick of people taking it for granted and assuming that they're amazing when they're not.

[curtains]

There were plenty of people who made money from poker before the "pokerboom". Some people's skill level won't be high enough when the "boom" ends, if it ever does, and they will be the ones with the biggest problems. However the exceptional players should still be able to make plenty of money. Perhaps they won't make as much, but they'll still be alright.

[sthief09]

I go to like the shittiest social school there is (columbia) and I think the "college life" more than makes up for the getting up early, studying for tests, and doing hw. I briefly skimmed through this, but didn't see anyone mention this. I don't get it. for one, it's fun, and two, getting life experience working with and living around so many people my age, is incredibly important and something I couldn't get sitting in front of a computer screen for 5 hours a day, and beating off the rest. there is no replacement for the college experience, and I don't just mean education

[Zoltri]

I have a great idea.
Why dont these young brash guys learn some business skills and run their own online poker site or open a B&amp;M and leave the poker to others.

Now that would be impressive.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a great idea.
Why dont these young brash guys learn some business skills and run their own online poker site or open a B&amp;M and leave the poker to others.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not a young brash guy, but the idea has been suggested to me. First of all, the track records of new sites getting off the ground have not been stellar. Secondly, there is still the question of legality. Not everyone wants to take those risks, and possibly have to leave the country.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
career/stability in general

i may be mistaken, but i am pretty sure you play for a living. granted you are probably one of the best internet players around, but what do you have to fall back on that zee doesnt? or is that you are not as optimistic about the future of online poker or didnt give up as much az zee did?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no stability. [censored] materialism. [censored] falling back on anything. [censored] your career in its ass. [censored] your insurance and 401K.

[censored] You. (astroglide I mean)

[Tyler Durden]

I'm glad I was the one to start this discussion.

[pokerjo22]

[ QUOTE ]
9. I have had sleep issues my entire life, and conforming to a sleep schedule necessary for school is very tough for me, and often excruciatingly painful.
10. I am intelligent enough that without poker, I could find multiple ways to make &gt; $100,000 per year, none of which require a diploma.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to wish you luck with your quest to make 100k/year while not getting out of bed in a morning.

[sublime]

bed

me and you.

soon

[pokerjo22]

I take it you're drunk? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
bed

me and you.

soon

[/ QUOTE ]

Smooth, rich, or neither?

[TazQ]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is the short term though. You're probably going to need your education someday. If you manage your time well you can probably get 15-20 hours in per week playing if you really try to, w/o sacrificing your school work

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the thing that gets me.

I'm a junior majoring in electrical engineering, one of the more difficult degrees to get and I can play 15 hrs a week. I'm sure if I pushed myself and had no social life I could hit 25-30.

Dropping out and playing poker full time will give me, what, 30-40 hrs a week? I'm sure there are people who can sit on a computer 8 hrs a day and play poker but they're definitely the minority. From the people I've known, generally the smarter the person the harder it is get hours in playing online poker.

I know I could do 4 hrs a day tops, thinkig long term. I tried the 6-8 hr a day routine and it was hell, I lasted 2 weeks and I'm currently on a now 4-5 week break from burnout.

All I know is playing 10-15 hrs a week I can pay my bills, buy nice things, and probably save up enough money before I graduate to buy a house/car in cash.

Obviously if college isn't for you, it isn't. Still, anyone who is thinking of dropping out needs to try playing full time, 8 hrs a day. Otherwise you're dropping out to get an extra 5-10 hrs a week in which is silly.

This isn't really directed towards ZJ since obviously college isn't for him, but for other people who're considering it.

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think any 19-year old is mature enough to decide whether college is worth it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is at all the case. In fact, I think that mature 19-year-olds are in a better position to judge the worth of the college experience, because college is not a sunk cost when you haven't gone yet. Think about it...twenty years later, you might think to yourself, "Well, right now, I'm glad that I went to college, as it was a character-building experience." It's kinda like how you always are glad that you went on a camping trip after the fact no matter how much it sucked while you were there....because all the negatives are over. However, if before you went on this trip, you actually did a cost-benefit analysis, you might very well think (and be correct in thinking) that the trip was not worth your while.


[ QUOTE ]

Let me get a litte dramatic here, money isn't everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh. If Zee's goal was income maximization, then he sure as hell wouldn't play poker for a living...he'd finish his degree, get his MBA, become a bond trader and make a ridiculous amount of money. The reason Zee quit school is to increase the quality of his life.

[ QUOTE ]
Think about it, most respected people of previous generations went to college. It is where you establish life-lasting bonds, and life-lasting education.

[/ QUOTE ]

We only get one life. Shouldn't we live it for ourselves? Each of the things you mentioned is a positive. But when you weigh possible respect, possible long-term friendships against:

-hating classes
-having no desire to get good grades
-hating studying
-hating tests
-the intelligence to succeed in life without a college degree
-the abhorrence for the "societally beneficial" upper class jobs (doctor, lawyer, blah blah blah)

It should be pretty clear that Zee is making the right decision for himself. It is to me.

Will

[ChicagoTroy]

Insh'Allah that's all it was.

Considering the relative lack of anonymity in the community, I'd not post pictures of myself here if I were you. There's no shortage of crazy around here.

[Paluka]

I think Zee's choice is great if he is going to value the same things at age 29 that he does at age 19.

[sublime]

I take it you're drunk?

sober babe /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i like the glasses also

/images/graemlins/heart.gif sublime

[sublime]

Smooth, rich, or neither?

wicked smooth.

does making more than most people my age qualify as rich? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Smooth, rich, or neither?

wicked smooth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Using the term wicked is never smooth. Not even in Boston.

[ QUOTE ]
does making more than most people my age qualify as rich? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably good enough.

[pokerjo22]

[ QUOTE ]
Using the term wicked is never smooth. Not even in Boston.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well now you're just out of your depth LD.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Smooth, rich, or neither?

wicked smooth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Using the term wicked is never smooth. Not even in Boston.

[ QUOTE ]
does making more than most people my age qualify as rich? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably good enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having played with Sublime, my guess is that he actually is smooth.

And he'd definitely employ "wicked" in his game.

scrub

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Using the term wicked is never smooth. Not even in Boston.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well now you're just out of your depth LD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went out with a girl from Boston for a while. I got wicked sick of her using the term wicked. I stand by my original statement.

[sublime]

Using the term wicked is never smooth. Not even in Boston.

its all in the context masked man.

Probably good enough.

whew!

[sublime]

Well now you're just out of your depth LD.

atta girl.

i like a girl who will throw down for her man /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jo- we should do like a poker date. I will take you out to eat, and then we can play 20/40 and you can watch me put the entire table on tilt. so romantic /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[sublime]

Having played with Sublime, my guess is that he actually is smooth.

just dont mention anything about my looks!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

you coming back east anytime soon?

[wins_pot]

What are you doing with your wild and precious life?
wasting it on poker

Poker players invariably become very narrow people.
If money alone if your concern, I'm convinced with anyone who has the talent to win at poker could make a lot more in other endeavors. I've had extended conversations with Erik123, and it's clear that he regrets essentially missing out on college (he dropped out. was a physics and math concentrator). He's obviously a smart guy and would be extremely successful in any field. Poker may be the wrong place for him in the end -- guy's got a lot of gamble in him.