He's a maniac, maniac

[MRBAA]

Very good game at the club last night. Brad and Dave stayed home and left the 4-8 table to me and some of the usual suspects. To top things off a normally solid player went on tilt, so for several hours we had three certified maniacs, five horrible loose gooses, one weak tight type and me. This game was right out of SSHE, with 6 or more to almost every flop and plenty action thereafter. On one hand I got to check re-reraise four players on the turn, putting 20BB in the pot on that street alone.

This hand was an aberration, though as there was just one limper to me on the button with KQo, I raised, Mr. Maniac called int he BB, limper called and the flop came down 89T. Not my favorite flop but when they checked to me, I bet. Mr. Maniac gave me a loose call, the limper folded and we were head up. Now Mr. Maniac will truly play any two and loves to check raise the turn. So when it came a Q,
making a rather scary
89TQ rainbow, and he checked, I was half expecting a raise when I tossed my chips in. Sure enough, he didn't disappoint. I called the c/r with my top pair, good kicker and the river came a K -- making the board

89TQK and giving me top two.

Mr. Maniac bets, I go to my stack considering whether to raise or call and I...

[MaxPower]

Just think for a long time and then call. That way you encourage him to keep being a maniac and taking shots at you. If you play at this club a lot it will be more profitable in the long run than any bets you might collect on the end.

And don't remind me of that horrible song.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
89TQK and giving me top two.

Mr. Maniac bets, I go to my stack considering whether to raise or call and I...

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise and call a three-bet. Putting aside MaxPower's well thought out meta-concerns, treating this as an isolated case I think you can safely raise here. In my experience a true maniac is check-raising the flop with an open ended straight draw, so when he just calls the flop I am very doubtful that he has a Jack.

Edit: Also, I didn't even think it was worth mentioning the first time around but there is like zero chance he has a set as any of the hands that would have given him one he would have three-bet pre-flop.

[MRBAA]

Actually, this maniac probably wouldn't three bet 8s preflop and maybe not 9s. He's very loose preflop but only aggressive with decent hands. His real mania is post flop, particularly on the turn and river where he loves to try to push players he preceives as tight off their hands. But I agree, I wasn't overly concerned about a set here -- the jack was my concern and I think you make a really excellent point about the likelihood of a raise on the flop if he was openended, although he also does love to wait for the turn to get a raise in.

[sfer]

You raise and fold to a 3-bet. Unless it's someone tilting, the usual cast of local maniacs won't 3-bet without a J, and most will just call assuming that they're chopping.

[MRBAA]

How'd I know SFER would go for the raise? btw, if you'd sat down around 10:30 last night, you'd have been a very happy man.

[chief444]

I'd raise. Mainly because of what Colgin pointed out. I think a maniac plays anything with a J more aggressively on the flop. A worse two pair I think is far more likely. I'm a little torn though I admit on whether to call a 3-bet or not.

[MRBAA]

Consensus seems to be to raise...but I just called. I find that against maniacs, I often can't logically read their hands at all. When that's the case (as here) I tend to simply fold when I have nothing and make sure a bet goes in on every round when I have something. This guy doesn't have to have a jack of course, he's perfectly capable of taking my money with 67o or a set of eights or nines. Also, I didn't have it in me to fold to a three bet from this lunatic, as he's perfectly capable of three betting hands like 89.

In any event, this time he had Q5s and my hand was good.

[Nate tha' Great]

Does anybody like a turn check here?

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody like a turn check here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I would rather risk the likely check-raise from the maniac (who may be doing so with a worse made hand or a draw) than giving him a free card on this board.

I assume if you do check then you are calling absolutely any card on the river and probably only raising if something like a Jack falls.

[MRBAA]

I think checking here with top pair is giving the maniac way too much credit. No free cards for him! Note that against a somewhat more rational player, the flop call has much more significance. The maniac could have almost anything. And he will call with loads of hands that I have crushed. But once he c/rs me, he probably has something more, hence my slowdown on the river. Had he checked, I'd have bet the river though. It's just wrong to give maniacs free cards.

[chief444]

Against this opponent, not really.

[ChicagoTroy]

I think you have to, but James called me a puss when I did something similar last night /images/graemlins/smile.gif