Video killed the radio star (live poker is dead to me)

[Irieguy]

August 1st, 1981. I was watching MTV when the first video was played. I was 11 years old, and stayed up all night drawing MTV signs on blank paper and filling in whatever patterns I could think of. It was the beginning of new era, and the end of another one.

20 years later, almost to the day, I played my first hand of poker on PartyPoker and a new era was born for me.

Tonight, sadly, another era came to an end for me.

I ate dinner at the Little Buddha at the Palms Casino with my wife and another co-worker. It was quite an enjoyable evening, and the wine didn't hurt either. Walking out through the casino I peeked into the "High Limit Poker Room" to see what was happening. They had 4 No-limit games going and they were juiced. Vince Neal's girlfriend and her entourage were sitting at one and there were several racks of chips in front of everybody without a shark in the water.

"Ok, change of plans, honey. I'm playing poker tonight."

So, I kissed my wife and pulled out my new Neteller ATM card to test out what the maximum withdrawal was. This game was live, and these monkeys were about to be fleeced. Mr. Neal would soon be calling my cell phone to plead for the pink slip to his girlfriend's Escalade back.

Then my wife said "why don't you just 8-table on-line? You make more doing that anyways."

Hmmm. I watched for a few minutes. Looked like they were getting about 22 hands an hour in... with all the newbie tourist no limit players fumbling about with their chips. How much is on the table? I counted. Maybe 8 grand. If I played for a couple of hours, how much could I make? I figured my hourly rate. Damn. 50-80 hands against these jokers, or 2,000 hands against the Yugoslavian and AA suited on-line?

I went home. Will I ever play in a casino again? (with the exception of the WSOP, of course.) I don't know.

It is a far, far better place I go than I have ever gone before. It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done.

Irieguy

[Bigwig]

Heh.

I play in a couple live tourneys a month. I wonder why. How much do I really make hourly from these tourneys? Not as much as online, that's for sure. Not to mention the pain of watching how everybody sucks so bad. Their dumb comments like, "I had AJ! Got to go the river with that!" with no A or J on the board.

If you think about it, six tabling you can play almost 20X the hands per hour.

I'm only going anymore to keep up some practice for larger buy-in tournaments I play live in the future.

In short, I agree.

[goldseraph]

Well I agree with your wife, but perhaps it you would just be fleecing them for fun. I primarily play online, but I like to get out and play 'real' poker from time to time.. it's not nearly as profitable but more fun to me. Although you may not find such rabble to be entertaining/challenging opposition..

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
or 2,000 hands against the Yugoslavian and AA suited on-line?
Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I don't know what you're talking about since I pzwn you hardcore. Here are the results:

Played: 2
Me: +$84
Irie: -$66

I'm up $150 on you! How you like dem apples! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

And for the record, I PzWnD Sucker as well:

Played: 6
Me: +$72
Sucker: -$48

That's $120 on the sucka! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

So, I'm pretty sure Irie shoulda gone with bustin' that chump for his Escalade.

Yugoslav

PS Great post (as usual)

[USS Gut Shot]

Can't agree more. Walked into a Lucky Chances near San Francisco and wondered after five minutes, "WTF am I doing here?' Besides, they only let you play in one game at a time!!! Weak!!!

Multi-games at multiple-sites, Vodka, Tivo, and laundry on the fly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That being said cardrooms are doing great business. Who knew?

[morgan180]

This is so true, not that I played that much live to begin with, but we have ocean's eleven casino about 25 minutes from us and i NEVER go. I don't want to sit next to a bunch of maroons, i want to sit next to my wife, in my house and win money...sue me!

I would choose to play online any time.

[skipperbob]

4 years ago I predicted that "B&M" cardrooms wouldn't last six more months; Now I can't get a seat on the rare occasions I go to one.....Go Figure!

[skipperbob]

maroons?....as in cookies?...or the shade of burgundy?

[MagnoliasFM]

A similar epiphany happened to me after I moved off to college and away from the 3210857210938572398 casinos in Southern California. Amen for Party Poker lol.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
August 1st, 1981. I was watching MTV when the first video was played. I was 11 years old

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured you for much older than this.

And you are crazy if you think online play is more fun than live play. I know a lot of us do this just for the money, but if I had my way, I'd never play online again.

God willing, Someday when I have a 50,000 Bankroll and I play nothing but $500+ Buy-in multis and 20/40+ that will be the case.

But then maybe it's just because I get so few opportunities to play live right now.

Regards
Brad S

[Irieguy]

Thanks, Aleo.

I already felt like a complete assclown for passing on that game to come home and lose money 8-tabling. Now I feel worse.

Irieguy

[AleoMagus]

Glad I could help.

The next time you start to think sitting alone in a room burning your retina (you are the doctor, is the plural of retina 'retina' or 'retinas'?) out of your skull is more fun than sitting in a room full bad poker players, one of whom is Vince Neal's girlfriend (who I can only assume is hot), come see me and I will enlighten you again.

Regards
Brad S

[lorinda]

Sitting in a poker room is something I did for 10 years.

If I have to do it again in the next 10 years, it will be 1000 years too soon.

Lori

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . is more fun than sitting in a room full bad poker players, one of whom is Vince Neal's girlfriend (who I can only assume is hot)

[/ QUOTE ]

. . .oh, god . . .you OBVIOUSLY haven't seen her . . .one of the most overgroomed, overplasticized people I've ever seen. . .talk about burning out your retinas, I'd wanna take a bic lighter to mine after having to look at her for 4 hours ...

[Jason Strasser]

Isnt live poker more fun? Playing Vince woulda been a story to tell. I guess it's all about what you look for from poker. For me its more of a game where money just appears, but where I think I'd play it with the same passion if money wasnt involved.

But oh well, I see your point. You make a living doing this while I have my parents paying for my college, so this is like the stoned hippie telling the construction working to chill out and have more fun.

-Jason

[Unarmed]

I went the other direction...barely play online anymore after finding an incredible 10/20 NL game. I take some pretty crazy swings but the action is insane. Witness this hand last night:

UTG open raises to 100 (standard, but I've seen an 800 open)
MP bumps it to 200
Button ups to 600
BB calls
UTG all-in for ~1300
Call, call, call.

(its a bizarre structure, 500 min no max but most buy in for 1k, fine with me I don't have an infinite bankroll)

These guys are all rich chinese buddies and they're laughing at each other as they dump their chips in the middle.

UTG has JJ, (?) MP AA, Button 99, (???) BB A7s (hahahaha)
JJ turns his set and takes it down and I just stare at the table in disbelief. Everyone at the table is laughing their asses off (including AA) except me. Guy beside me says, thats nothing, wait until 3am or so, then the action really heats up.

Holy f*ck.
And still, with all of that, the main reason I play live is the hot chicks that hang around these places. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

The only bad thing is I have nowhere to post these hands because they're high limit hands that belong in the beginner section.

EDIT: Perhaps this is just me, but I find I'm learning a ton more playing live, as I'm actually paying complete attention to every hand. With SNG's I was four tabling and probably not giving every decision the time it deserved. Also, with the tight early open up late strategy there's just not a lot of flop theory involved. I realized a month ago that I'm not really all that great at poker, but I'm pretty good at beating SNGs.

Is that a strange statement?

[lorinda]

but where I think I'd play it with the same passion if money wasnt involved.

If money wasn't the issue, I'd rather play Magic than poker any day.

Lori

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]

If money wasn't the issue, I'd rather play Magic than poker any day.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this is a function of how long you've played both? I'll probably hate poker in 10 years too...

[lorinda]

Magic is a fundamentally better game.

It's like poker, but sometimes you turn up and find that you're playing with five suits this month, or that a straight beats a full house.

It keeps you on your toes more, is more complex and yet maintains all the elements of bluff and luck that make poker so entertaining.

Lori

[byronkincaid]

[ QUOTE ]
I realized a month ago that I'm not really all that great at poker, but I'm pretty good at beating SNGs.

Is that a strange statement?


[/ QUOTE ]

SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker

[/ QUOTE ]

...So I'm told.

Regards
Brad S

[bball904]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I realized a month ago that I'm not really all that great at poker, but I'm pretty good at beating SNGs.

Is that a strange statement?


[/ QUOTE ]

SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd actually take that a bit farther. SNG's aren't really poker. Think about it. For the system that is preached and followed by so many winning players of not playing hands for 3 levels followed by blind aggression on the bubble, is that really poker?

Are the first 3 rounds poker? What we are looking for is a table of clowns that are not aware of our "system", but rather will mix it up playing poker whilst we watch.

Round 4 and 5 may resemble poker.

Round 6 and later is time to shove/fold or call/fold pre-flop. That is certainly interesting poker.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sng and play little else. But I'm not getting any grand illusions that I'm becoming a great (or even good) poker player just because I can make a living beating the Party $55 sng's.

[Unarmed]

Amen.

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

90% of 2+2 posters baffle me w/ their equation solving skills. Poker is definitely a math driven game, I would have a much better chance against some of you in a spelling bee. Scrabble anyone? Anyway, just found this to be a tad funny, no disrespect.

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]

maroons?....as in cookies?...or the shade of burgundy?

[/ QUOTE ]

maroons as in morons, just my word for the idiots at the poker table with their glasses and hoods on at 2/4 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
I realized a month ago that I'm not really all that great at poker, but I'm pretty good at beating SNGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is another great point. I am actually "learning" how to play poker by focusing on my limit game. I keep my bankroll intact by winning SNGs using an easly formula.

My biggest weakness is playing post flop and I have no illusions that SNGs are going to really help me solve that and the other 800 holes in my game. I think cutting my teeth at limit is the only way that is going to happen. In the meantime I'll continue to take people's money at the 10+1's to pay for my education.

[lacky]

if money was not an issue I would still be handicapping horse races. That sport has a majasty and level of complexety that poker just cant touch. Unfortunatly it also has a 15 to 30% rake that is almost impossible to overcome.

Steve

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker

[/ QUOTE ]

...So I'm told.

Regards
Brad S

[/ QUOTE ]

We all need custodians. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

so this is like the stoned hippie telling the construction working to chill out and have more fun.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that sucks. How come you get to be the stoned hippie and I have to be the construction worker? I want to be the stoned hippie.

Talk about a bad week... first a 175 SNG losing skid, then a college kid, while looking at an avatar of Bob Marley rolling a spliff under the name "Irie"guy, says he's the stoned hippie to my construction worker. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes...

Irieguy

[nokona13]

[ QUOTE ]
Magic is a fundamentally better game.

It's like poker, but sometimes you turn up and find that you're playing with five suits this month, or that a straight beats a full house.

It keeps you on your toes more, is more complex and yet maintains all the elements of bluff and luck that make poker so entertaining.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread somehow turned from vastly better players than I talking about issues I haven't begun to encounter in my tiny experience, into something hilarious. From reading your posts for a few months, lorinda, I never would have guessed you were a magic devotee... I geuss I stopped playing when I was too young to think of magic in terms of a well designed classic game (like go or hold 'em), but it's pretty interesting that you put it on that level...

[stupidsucker]

First let me say the analogy is perfect....I can still hear Britrockstar_014 telling me "I want my MTV" Back when it was a subscribed station like HBO.

Its simple for me

Live poker is for fun and big tournies bankroll permitting

Online SnGs are for grinding and making $$/hour

Eventualy I dont want to play poker for a living at all. When I do play poker in the future, it will be ring or multi... No more SnGs.

I have been fascinated with the game since a small boy(Im still not very big, and clean shaven I look like im 13). It was only about 6 years ago that I would have poker night at my place. $30 dollar night OMFG. Seemed like a monster buy in for my friends who were mostly still college students.

Shane had money from a settlement... Frank had shane in is pocket for lender and was a typical sucker that thought he was getting better. Nick...well Nick always knew he was beat, but his curiosity got the best of him. Simms and I didnt care about anyone else at the table but each other. We both knew we would have most of the money of most every night... but who would have more?(Thats who bought breakfast) Calling off work so I can sleep now with the $87 bucks I have in my pocket. Drifting off with a full belly of french fries and maybe a burger. (I dont eat breakfast food when I wake up, I sure as hell am not eating it after satying u all night.. even at 6AM)


Uncomparable.
Dont feel bad for passing it up.. I made the opposite mistake and a big one.
I moved from San Francisco to Las Vegas to play the 30/60 at the Bellagio. I dont know wtf I was thinking. Left behind a wonderful woman for a long distance relationship. That wouldnt be such a big deal expect the fact that I have played about 10 hours of live poker since moving to vegas.

She is pissed and I am moving back the end of April. Well; at least I know she has to love me to put up with it.

[lorinda]

There are several ex pro magic players on these boards.

I am not one of them, but I did play at the pro-tour.

Lori

[Lumpy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Magic is a fundamentally better game.

It's like poker, but sometimes you turn up and find that you're playing with five suits this month, or that a straight beats a full house.

It keeps you on your toes more, is more complex and yet maintains all the elements of bluff and luck that make poker so entertaining.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread somehow turned from vastly better players than I talking about issues I haven't begun to encounter in my tiny experience, into something hilarious. From reading your posts for a few months, lorinda, I never would have guessed you were a magic devotee... I geuss I stopped playing when I was too young to think of magic in terms of a well designed classic game (like go or hold 'em), but it's pretty interesting that you put it on that level...

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker and Magic (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1670950&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1)

[mcpherzen]

[ QUOTE ]
There are several ex pro magic players on these boards.

I am not one of them, but I did play at the pro-tour.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon my complete ignorance, but what is "Magic?" I owuld have thought before this thread that I would have known of most games that could be played professionally.

[lorinda]

I have asked permission to post this before....

Interview with a forumite (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/feature/20020620a)

Lori

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

SNGs are the Kintergarten of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic blast from the past. Nice one.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[lorinda]

It's basically pokemon for adults.

Only a few people made a decent living out of it, but many earned good extra cash.

Full name is Magic: The Gathering if you wish to google it.
Learning the game from scratch now would be a full time job in itself.

Lori

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
There are several ex pro magic players on these boards.

I am not one of them, but I did play at the pro-tour.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

any of them comfortable with sharing names? i know one personally...would be a trip to find him here...

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd actually take that a bit farther. SNG's aren't really poker. Think about it. For the system that is preached and followed by so many winning players of not playing hands for 3 levels followed by blind aggression on the bubble, is that really poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

SNG's are definitely different than ring games but I don't think you can say they're not poker. Sure the strategies might be different, but the skillful poker player will still have the advantage.

Even MTT experts like Harrington and Cloutier call for very tight play in the early levels and lots of aggression later. Does that mean the WSOP isn't poker either?

My feeling is that the freezeout structure and increasing blinds of tournaments (whether SNGs or MTT), requires just as much skill, and more strategy, than the endless repeating cycle of ring games.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Played: 6
Me: +$72
Sucker: -$48


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but now I know who you are.... I see one really bad play that I made. It was an over confident big stack push after you had pushed. on the bubble with AK(1300stackish) I called with KQo(4kish)from the SB and button had QQ. QQ takes it down with his set on river. UTG with 680 chips was a happy camper. I went on to take 1st even though I lost that big hand.

All of your plays look pretty smooth to me. Feel free to stay away from my table.

BTW you forgot to mention that in every single game you sat exactly one to my right with the exception of once when you had one seat in between.

[byronkincaid]

Did you lurk before you registered or wasn't that thread as long ago as I thought? Quite possible as half the time I don't even know what day it is anymore. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[rachelwxm]

nice post. One game last night when we start to move allin a few times, a guy at the table said, "is this real poker?". I do find it boring playing SNGs from time to time, not to mention that I need to play some computer games after a session of SNGs to keep me in good mood. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[NegativeEV]

[ QUOTE ]
They had 4 No-limit games going and they were juiced. Vince Neal's girlfriend and her entourage were sitting at one and there were several racks of chips in front of everybody without a shark in the water.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be wrong, I always thought this is why your location is Las Vegas. TightChicken and Irieguy can run 8 tables 365 days/year, this situation- not so much. How can I live vicariously if you pass on these opportunities? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
I have asked permission to post this before....

Interview with a forumite (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/feature/20020620a)

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote-> If I had a choice between eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch or murdering an animal and eating it, I'm clearly just going to make myself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

That's awesome...

[The Yugoslavian]

I make abundant use of the archives /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

So, you'll see me referring to all sorts of stuff that I read many months after the fact.

Sometimes I feel as though I've had conversations with Bozeman, William, Stagemusic, etc.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But I'm really just some punk-ass noob trying to 'fit in with the cool people.' /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yugoslav

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have asked permission to post this before....

Interview with a forumite (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/feature/20020620a)

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote-> If I had a choice between eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch or murdering an animal and eating it, I'm clearly just going to make myself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

That's awesome...

[/ QUOTE ]

I myself would much rather have pizza. Peanutbutter is for my icecream. As much as I want a thick juicey Medium Rare Filet, I just cant chew it. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

To each their own. Although it woulda been awesome had he somehow been able to put his obvious personality into his card. "Vegetarian straight edge" This card inflicts guilt on all meat eating drug users... Oh wait it doesnt work. Those of us that like meat.... really really really like meat.

A chef I worked with In Chicago had a sticker.
[ QUOTE ]
If god didnt want us to eat meat why did he make it taste so yummy?

[/ QUOTE ]

[AA suited]

thread hijack... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

god, i remember magic: the addiction.

every deck had to have the 5 moxes and timewalk.

boy am i glad my local comic book store stopped hosting weekly tournys. and the next closest place that had weekly tournys was 100miles away, but full of cheaters and judges who didn't care. it no longer became fun.

and i quit just in time since Magic: Online came out the next year.

hm..2 screens for 8 tabling poker and 1 more monitor for Magic: online. multitasking at it's max? what do you mean my pair of Aces deosn't beat your Serra Angel?

[JFB37]

To each their own. I'm exactly the opposite. I've fiddled around online but just can't get into it. I'm also a much worse player online. For some reason, I find myself "experimenting" and talking myself into stupid decisions that I would never make in B&M. I also have a harder time reading the other players. In B&M I find it easy, and interesting, to watch what is going on in hands that I'm not involved in. This greatly benefits my play. Online, when I'm not involved, its just a bunch of blinking lights.

[kevstreet]

After I re-read my post, it doesn't come across as being humorous in the very least, so before I take a beating it was just a string bet on the "kintergarten" line.

[nokona13]

Hey,
I played magic for a few years way back. Any idea if those old 3rd and 4th edition cards ever became collector's items. They're gather dust for me somewhere. I remember being very excited about getting some assassin card (silent maybe) that was worth 10 big ones back in the day...

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey,
I played magic for a few years way back. Any idea if those old 3rd and 4th edition cards ever became collector's items. They're gather dust for me somewhere. I remember being very excited about getting some assassin card (silent maybe) that was worth 10 big ones back in the day...

[/ QUOTE ]

royal assassin /images/graemlins/smile.gif

no idea about the value of old cards. i still have a sealed french 3rd edition booster box somewhere in my house.

[lorinda]

It may be worth looking at some of the prices of the 3rd edition stuff on ebay (revised , not 3rd /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Last time I was playing magic live, the dual lands were selling at 12 pounds (I dunno, $20 or so) each.
They may have since rotated out of the extended format and dropped in price a bit but I imagine they're still reasonably expensive if you have crates of the things.

Lori

[lorinda]

I just looked them up, the dual lands can be sold to a trader who is quite rough at $4.50 each.

I imagine on ebay you'll get considerably more.

Lori

[Kanchi]

MTG, so many memories. I played magic when I was 12-15, and around the end when I stopped everyone was getting into poker. I only really got in to poker a few months ago. Before that I've played a few times and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. We use to play small games for bad rares, good times.

I owe A LOT to friends I've made through magic, they use to always lend me decks and stuff. Now I come to them for Poker advice or to borrow a book every now and then.

Magic was fun, I grinded into Nats twice and won one JSS.

[Nottom]

3rd. 4th edition stuff isn't worth much unless its a dual land. Then its still not really worth a whole lot. If you happen to have any of the power cards however (moxes, lotus, and that stuff) they have gone way up over the last year or so. I sold my power about a year ago for prolly $1500, I could get double that easily now /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

As for some famous M:tG/poker players ... Dave Williams, John Murphy, and Mattias Andersson from this years WSOP all played Magic. Respected 2+2er Paluka is a former big time magic player and even has his own card.

[Bellagibro]

I play online for dough but like to play live once in awhile to stay sharp for frequent Vegas trips. It's also fun to see the pain in your opponents eyes as you rake a pot.

[Awful]

4th didn't have duals, IIRC. Revised was considered "3rd", then there was a separate set for 4th with the dual lands pulled and some other changes.

Magic nerds, unite!