unprofessional river

[greg nice]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($104)
BB ($171.5)
UTG ($209.2)
MP ($215.35)
Button ($123.16)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $8</font>, BB calls $6, UTG folds.

Flop: ($18) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, BB calls $15.

Turn: ($48) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($48) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $25</font>, BB pushes all in, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $73


i knew as soon as i clicked on BET what a disasterous play this was.

the way i played it up to the river it looks like missed overcards and that im trying to take a stab at it with an underbet. i have seen this opponent at 200nl as well and he is definitely capable of making a bluff here, although obviously by my fold he could also have me beat.

bet of $25 here accomplished absolutely nothing. if hes got crap hes either gonna fold or bluff. if hes got a monster he will call or raise. the right play would have been to check and call a resonable bet if its made. since it looks like i have unimproved overs, hes not gonna bet pot with a monster cause he knows i will fold. for my same $25 i mightve been able to get a showdown by check / calling.

[soah]

I agree with your river analysis.

What do you do if he bets the turn though?

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your river analysis.

What do you do if he bets the turn though?

[/ QUOTE ]

i curse the fact that im out of position and punch a hole in my wall.

i thought my turn check my be questioned and i think i wouldve bet the turn if any card besides a flush or 9 comes.


honestly, i have no idea what i wouldve done.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think the 9 is a blank. Bet the turn.

[Kaz The Original]

This is a great post. I am completely confused as to what to do on the turn. The river is clear I think, check and call a reasonable bet. But the turn? That's tough.

He might have been calling the flop with 109 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, as it's cheaper than raising and gets AK to check the turn when he can take it away from you.

He could be on the flush draw, which means you're winning, but he could also be on a flush draw with the 9. J10 /images/graemlins/club.gif beats you too there. But then again we're not concerned about the river right, it seems clear, it's the turn.


From now on I thinking I want to raise more when I'm out of position (with any hand I raise). Make it 6x the BB, or better yet 50! (joking on the 50 of course). Make them pay for the priveledge of position.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the 9 is a blank. Bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe, maybe not. BBs usually make loose calls preflop. not unreasonable to think he could have a 9. i think my play is fine as long as i follow it up with a river check.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think it is much more likely that you are losing value against a lower overpair or giving a free card to a draw.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is much more likely that you are losing value against a lower overpair or giving a free card to a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

what would you suggest a turn bet size be? getting close to pot commitment here..

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK, I didn't fully take into account your short stack. I just thought I saw everyone around 180-200. Normally I would bet around $35 on the turn, but you are probably right that that PCs you. And if you bet the $25 on the turn then you are stuck checking on the river and most likely calling all-in. So, I think I have come around to the line of check turn, check/call river, given your short stack. Although, honestly, I might just bet $25 on the turn for fear of a draw and call if he raises all in. Or even push the turn. Worse mistakes have been made than losing a 50BB stack with AA.