Stars 5/10

[BullChip]

Currently short handed at 6 players.

I'm on button w/ red AA. Everyone folds, I raise to 40. I got about 2100.

SB folds, BB calls. He's got about 1300. From what I can tell, he's pretty solid and aggressive. I know he's stealing some pots from people but it's hard to tell when he's stealing or not so far.

Flop brings KQ2r

He checks, I bet 90. I want to punish him for any draws or make him pay to see the next card. He instantly calls. Hmm.

Turn is 3 completing the rainbow.

He checks, I bet 300. Pots around 260. I'm overbetting the pot to test the waters.

He pauses for 5 seconds and pushes. I call.

Comments?

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]

He checks, I bet 300. Pots around 260. I'm overbetting the pot to test the waters.

He pauses for 5 seconds and pushes. I call.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]


The two bolded statements seem to contradict each other.

[lapoker17]

Check behind on the turn and call a reaonable bet on the end, or bet for value if checked to (with a read).

This board is pretty unscary, w JT being the only draw out. He called you on the flop with something, so I would try to keep it smallish with my 1 pair.

[tbach24]

YAY. This is the same line I thought of except I was too intimidated to post it because I thought it would be too passive /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BullChip]

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind on the turn and call a reaonable bet on the end, or bet for value if checked to (with a read).

This board is pretty unscary, w JT being the only draw out. He called you on the flop with something, so I would try to keep it smallish with my 1 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't understand why I would want to check behind on the turn. I'm giving him a free card if he has some kind of draw and letting him see his 5 outer for free if he has a pair of some sort.

[lapoker17]

The less draw-heavy a board is, the more it should worry you when you get flat called and have a 1 pair hand like your AA.

If I'm holding a set or 2 pair there, then I'm often playing it just like your opponent did and waiting for the turn to make my move at the pot - Maybe leading out, maybe check raising you. So, because there is only one possible hand that is drawing JT, it makes is less likely that your opponent is drawing than it would be on a board of say 89T with 2 clubs, and more likely that he's calling you with a made hand, like 2 pair or a set. What he has in this case is irrelevant unless you have a great read that he's definitely drawing.

So, that said, checking behind on the turn takes away his opportunity to check raise, and will also sometimes give him the impetus to bluff on the end. We're not getting away from the AA here - unless, perhaps an A or 9 falls on the river, but we don't want to play for our whole stack here with 1 pair - So we try to control the pot size - You don't win most of your big pots with 1 pair.

[start_to_finish]

"He checks, I bet 300. Pots around 260. I'm overbetting the pot to test the waters.

He pauses for 5 seconds and pushes. I call.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]"

I would have checked the turn. The only hand I can see you ahead of that he would push with, is Ace King (not that most good players would want to CR all in there with Ace King). The call there isn't giving this player much respect (or your money). Pot stealing is one thing, but a big push like this is representing a big hand - Bigger than one pair.

[Kaz The Original]

The only sort of draw a solid opponent has on the flop is J10. He is not likely to have a king or a queen in his hand, unless he has two. If he's solid.

Checking behind on the turn allows you to get away for a lot less when he has a set, and may entice him to take his AK further.

[partygirluk]

You played this hand badly. When you raise preflop and bet the flop and he calls, what do you have him on? That KQ2r flop must be pretty scary to him, so he is going to fold JJ to 33.

So why do you want to bet? Because you think he has JT? Well, it would be unusual for him to call preflop and call your slightly over the pot bet on the flop with JT. But if you don't have a read, it is possible.

However, checking behind only costs you when he would have hit his six outer on the river and would have folded to your bet, or when he misses but would have called your bet.

Against JT and you check behind and he misses, you may well induce him to bluff on the end. You also don't let him check raise bluff you, which puts you in a difficult situation.

He could have KQ, and been planning to C/R, but this gives you a free shot at an 8 outer, and helps reduce your losses if you are behind.

You should be quite scared of a set on this board. Maybe not THAT scared, as KK or QQ would likely re raise PF. A 9 5 2r flop would be more scary for you. However, 22 is a real possibility. Checking behind saves you money here.

Another possibility is that he has something like KJ or QTs, and figures that if you are on a steal you will check behind, and if you bet again he can safely fold. If you check behind, he might check on the river, intending to call a reasonable bet.

Note that betting here would be better if he had said hand and was willing to call turn and river bets, or if he folds and would have hit his 5 outer.

Overall, unless your opponent is particularly loose, passive and bad, checking behind has more merit than betting. The number one reason for this is that against a tricky 5/10 player, getting C/Red would suck, as you could easily fold the best hand or more likely call with worse. Number two reason is to induce a bluff or call on the river.

[partygirluk]

You really think he could have AK here?
And if so, do you really think he would fold to a reasonable turn bet?

[Kaz The Original]

Yes he could have AK here.

Preflop, against a button raise you might reraise with AK, but usually I would just call in this spot.

On the flop, I would raise with AK naturally, but it is not impossible.

One of the main skills when you get to higher levels is realizing that TPTK is not enough for your stack. When your opponent bets into you on the flop and then on the turn with AK, what can you put him on that you beat?

JJ? KJ? While KJ could certainly be in Hero's hand based on the action (opening from the button when folded to) I think it highly unlikely KJ bets the turn. In fact, when villian calls here on this drawless board, KJ is most likely going to check fold the turn barring improvement..

JJ is very unlikely to fire a second barrel.

So Villian, with AK, can split the pot, beat a hugely overplayed hand, and beat a bluff. He loses to almost all reasonable holdings.

(Note I had missed the fact that it was short handed earlier. This increases the likelyhood that hero is stealing preflop and on the flop, but I still believe my turn analysis is accruate).

[freemoney]

I really dont like the turn play at all, I think the only way you can overbet the pot like you did is if you have a better hand and want to play for your whole stack or you can get away from your hand when he pushes. You do this with a hand that doesnt really fit into either catergory. If you dont think you can get away from AA here then keep the pot alot smaller, as i think you are far behind at this spot to a good player.

[AJo Go All In]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm overbetting the pot to test the waters.

He pauses for 5 seconds and pushes. I call.


[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not saying your play is necessarily wrong, but this sequence seems inconsistent to me. what exactly were you testing?

[Jason Strasser]

You lose.

-Jason

[ggbman]

i think you want to keep this pot much smaller. You don't have to check the turn, but bet around 150. This way if he raises you with a stronger holding, you can fold without a huge loss. If he just has a King, he will call and you will be 87% to win a nice pot. But i don't like commiting such a big chunk of your stack with your hand. I think you are behind here for often then not, there aren't many flops worse for AA than KQx. Your still good sometimes, but not usually when someone wants to put their whole stack in the middle.

Gabe

[fsuplayer]

id rather risk a free card in a smallish pot than put another 1100 in against a good solid player.

that being said since you posted it, he was prob. semi-bluffing. did he hit?

[BullChip]

He had the other aces.