QQ: two dirty whores

[spentrent]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1380)
SB (t1595)
BB (t965)
UTG (t655)
UTG+1 (t1055)
MP1 (t755)
MP2 (t885)
Hero (t710)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t120</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t210</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t90.

Flop: (t495) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain raises all-in.
Hero folds.

Final Pot: t495


Comments?

EDIT: Converter is not showing villain's raise... I am going crazy.

[SuitedSixes]

I'm not sure what you're afraid of here, and you've spent a pretty good amount of chips for a flop just like this. Villain has neither a set nor a straight . . . and if they do, put them on your buddy list. So you're behind two hands: AA and KK and you've already decided you're not afraid of those by calling the re-raise. If you're going to fold the flop with no over cards, then you can't call the t90 raise, because then you're just playing for set value and 90t is too much in Level 2 to be calling for set value.

You may be up against AcKc, but I most likely think 99-JJ who wants to get rid of Ax or a club draw. If it's AA or KK you gotta pay 'em off and hope for runner-runner flush or the magic 3rd Q. This is one of those that maybe I fold if my buy-in is $10,000 or I drove 500 miles, but if I paid $33 and am playing in my underwear I call.

Bottom line: If you're only playing for set value, don't call the re-raise.

[Elektrik]

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of those that maybe I fold if my buy-in is $10,000 or I drove 500 miles, but if I paid $33 and am playing in my underwear I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments exactly.

[lorinda]

From 30 minutes ago.

$33 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t845)
Button (t785)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)
Hero (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t99</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t225</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls t210, Hero calls t126.

Flop: (t685) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t175</font>, BB calls t175, Hero folds.

Turn: (t1035) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t400 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t400 (All-In).

River: (t1835) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1835

The plan was to check call any all in if no overcards came and expect to see AA or KK about 1/3rd of the time.

Edit: Bonus points are available for guessing BB's hand.

Lori

[willie24]

this is a legitimate difficult situation. you are probably seeing AA or KK here 75% of the time against a somewhat normal opponent.

I don't blame you for folding. I would probably would have called expecting full-well to lose, but what you did may have been better.

it depends on your opponent. there are some who you can fold to with confidence here every time. there are others who you should push preflop against.

[betgo]

Call!

If your opponent has a higher pair he would probably have reraised preflop. It seems unlikely he has a straight or two pair and called the preflop raise.

If he can beat QQ, he might play it a little slower.

Your opponent could easily have a smaller pair or overcards and think you have high cards and missed the flop.

[HoldingFolding]

EP limp, raise, reraise - smells like AA, except, normally the reraise would be significantly bigger (300+). I'd fold, I just don't think at the 30s someone would go all in with this flop and AK, and I don't think that anything you've got beat (JJ, TT) would reraise preflop. Someone getting sneaky at 100s may be.

There's no problem with the T90 to call the reraise, as if you flop a Q, you're likely to get all his chips.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Edit: Bonus points are available for guessing BB's hand.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess that MP1 has AK and the BB has 6s7s.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Call!

If your opponent has a higher pair he would probably have reraised preflop. It seems unlikely he has a straight or two pair and called the preflop raise.

If he can beat QQ, he might play it a little slower.

Your opponent could easily have a smaller pair or overcards and think you have high cards and missed the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villain did reraise pre-flop. He limped UTG then reraised. I probably should have folded to the limp-reraise since I am a scaredy-cat.

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you're afraid of here, and you've spent a pretty good amount of chips for a flop just like this. Villain has neither a set nor a straight . . . and if they do, put them on your buddy list. So you're behind two hands: AA and KK and you've already decided you're not afraid of those by calling the re-raise. If you're going to fold the flop with no over cards, then you can't call the t90 raise, because then you're just playing for set value and 90t is too much in Level 2 to be calling for set value.

You may be up against AcKc, but I most likely think 99-JJ who wants to get rid of Ax or a club draw. If it's AA or KK you gotta pay 'em off and hope for runner-runner flush or the magic 3rd Q. This is one of those that maybe I fold if my buy-in is $10,000 or I drove 500 miles, but if I paid $33 and am playing in my underwear I call.

Bottom line: If you're only playing for set value, don't call the re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. i couldn't call fast enough. but, hey, maybe i missed it, i was assuming this was a 10+1. is that right?

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line: If you're only playing for set value, don't call the re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? There's 405 in the pot and villan's actions have implicitly told you that you have excellent (likely stack-sized) implied odds.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
i was assuming this was a 10+1. is that right?

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, didn't mention that: $30+3.

[willie24]

you easily have implied odds to call the 90 reraise

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
you easily have implied odds to call the 90 reraise

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe juuuussst barely (7.5 * 90 = 675)

[Phil Van Sexton]

I would've played it exactly the same. Unless I'm missing some read on the villian, the "limp, min-reraise" spells doom for QQ.

On the other hand, if you flop a set, you're sitting at 1400+. If you call, it costs you 90 to win 800+ if you double up. 8:1 against hitting a set....looks good to me, I'm calling even if he showed me the AA.

[swarm]

I've been running into this problem a lot lately, however it has been with KK (much harder to get away with) not QQ.

Limp raise with KK's or AA's and then hammering the pre-flop raise with a re-raise is the most overused move on PP these days.

There is litte doubt in my mind you are up against AA possibly KK (the fact that he only re-raised t210 is he is trying to bait you and get you pot committed SCREAMS AA; KK would probably hammer down on the reraise to drive any Ace with a strong kicker out. At this point your QQ might as well be 22 and you are playing for the set. Call the 90 and muck if no help comes...

An example last night... I'm in the Big Blind with KK. UTG +1 limps, button calls, I raise 4BB. UTG re-raises , button goes all-in. I'm certain one of the jokers has aces so I muck. UTG +1 calls and both had pairs of aces and limped in with them.

I just consider my chips lost in the re-raise a well used mine detector... this is why you must raise or re-raise with QQ or KK on non-raised or limped in flops.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you're afraid of here, and you've spent a pretty good amount of chips for a flop just like this. Villain has neither a set nor a straight . . . and if they do, put them on your buddy list. So you're behind two hands: AA and KK and you've already decided you're not afraid of those by calling the re-raise. If you're going to fold the flop with no over cards, then you can't call the t90 raise, because then you're just playing for set value and 90t is too much in Level 2 to be calling for set value.

You may be up against AcKc, but I most likely think 99-JJ who wants to get rid of Ax or a club draw. If it's AA or KK you gotta pay 'em off and hope for runner-runner flush or the magic 3rd Q. This is one of those that maybe I fold if my buy-in is $10,000 or I drove 500 miles, but if I paid $33 and am playing in my underwear I call.

Bottom line: If you're only playing for set value, don't call the re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what he said. Perfect analysis.

Irieguy

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
if I paid $33 and am playing in my underwear I call.


[/ QUOTE ]

I call here even when playing with pants on.

Although, I have to admit if I'm wearing pants but no shirt, I might be tempted to get away from this hand.

Yugoslav