was there an opportunity to get overcalls anywhere? [Archive]

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Derek in NYC

02-01-2005, 02:07 AM

After the hand ended, somebody told me I had raised him out of the pot. Standard play, or do you seek overcalls anywhere? Also, please evaluate my river play.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 4 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.70 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP3 caps, Hero calls.

River: (20.70 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24.70 BB

JP2k1

02-01-2005, 02:20 AM

I think you played perfect. The pot was simply enormous, and apparently MP3 had a pretty good hand, so you definitely put in those raises. Any bets you *MIGHT* have gained by letting MP1 in more cheaply would not have made up for the action lost to MP3. Like if you just called the turn, maybe MP1 calls, but MP3 wouldn't have the opportunity to cap. Besides, in this big a pot, you don't even know MP1 would fold after you 3-bet the turn; he raised the flop afterall.

You played fine, f an overcall.

GrunchCan

02-01-2005, 02:27 AM

Anyone else re-raise the river, or are we sure MP3 has JJ?

Forget the overcalls. The guy was just mad becasue he had to throw away AK.

elindauer

02-01-2005, 03:02 AM

I don't know about an overcall, but after it goes raise and 3-bet on the flop, you should consider calling and check-raising the turn. It's highly likely that the turn will be bet, and this will give you a chance to protect your hand a bit.

As for the river, bad bet. I mean, what do you put MP3 on? Let's review. He has a hand worthy of a preflop 3-bet. Typically, that's AA-TT, AK, AQ, stuff like that. Now he 3-bets a JT8 flop. probably JJ, AA, maybe AKs in diamonds. Less likely, KK, QQ. Distant trailer, AK.

Now he caps a turn blank. This should clue you in. The only hand he can have is JJ.

Now an 8 hits, changing nothing. Why bet? Your opponent has screamed at the top of his lungs I HAVE JACKS FULL! but you don't listen. Do you really think he 3-bet with 55 or Q9? Not likely.

Good luck.
Eric

elindauer

02-01-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else re-raise the river, or are we sure MP3 has JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reraise?! I'd fold my fullhouse first. Put it this way, if he doesn't have jacks, what does he have?

Good luck.
Eric

Entity

02-01-2005, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about an overcall, but after it goes raise and 3-bet on the flop, you should consider calling and check-raising the turn. It's highly likely that the turn will be bet, and this will give you a chance to protect your hand a bit.

As for the river, bad bet. I mean, what do you put MP3 on? Let's review. He has a hand worthy of a preflop 3-bet. Typically, that's AA-TT, AK, AQ, stuff like that. Now he 3-bets a JT8 flop. probably JJ, AA, maybe AKs in diamonds. Less likely, KK, QQ. Distant trailer, AK.

Now he caps a turn blank. This should clue you in. The only hand he can have is JJ.

Now an 8 hits, changing nothing. Why bet? Your opponent has screamed at the top of his lungs I HAVE JACKS FULL! but you don't listen. Do you really think he 3-bet with 55 or Q9? Not likely.

Good luck.
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

Eric,

MP1 3-bet preflop. MP3 called two cold.

Derek in NYC

02-01-2005, 03:20 AM

He turns over T8o and MHIG. Very odd hand.

bakku

02-01-2005, 03:28 AM

I probably c/r the river against an unknown because

1) I don't want to face a cap
2) I'd rather the river go 2 or 3 bets not 1 or 2
3) I generally assume unknowns are retarded until proven otherwise.

Derek in NYC

02-01-2005, 11:08 AM

I'm kind of torn on the 5th street bet. I guess I can see how re-raising should be out of the question, but I'm not sure I agree that going into 5th street I should automatically put the villain on a set of jacks. Yes, the action on 4th street was hot & heavy, but many on party would play an overpair like AA-QQ this way also. (I certainly would).

pshabi

02-01-2005, 01:55 PM

Two pair, which is what my small set ran into in a similar situation last night where a player behind me raised me all the way down.

I check/called for what it's worse, but people will play two pair that hard.

GrunchCan

02-01-2005, 02:05 PM

I guess I can see how re-raising should be out of the question

I really don't. I mean, MP3 could have AJs. In fact, I'd put that as his most likely holding - his action thru the whole hand matches it perfectly if he puts Hero on a flush draw or similar.

So again, why no river reraise?

elindauer

02-01-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Eric,

MP1 3-bet preflop. MP3 called two cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, quite right. Let me reassess... no you still need to check and call. While calling 3 cold perhaps doesn't mean as much (although it should mean more!) as 3-betting, I still can't put him on T8. I think the odds of, say JTs have increased. There are 3 ways he can have this, IF he will call with it, which many won't. There are 3 ways he can have jacks. You're offering 2:1 on an even money shot by betting. 3-betting is still crazy.

Note that checking is also better against missed draws like KQd, not that this is a terribly likely holding for any but the laggiest of players.

Good luck.
Eric

profpeebody

02-01-2005, 05:33 PM

I would put in a re-raise on the river. I think you are ahead, as mentioned in other replies he could have over pair, j10 or AJ.

I have a question for you, Derek. Why do you cap the turn? Do you think you are ahead on the turn? If so why does the river slow you down?

Derek in NYC

02-01-2005, 05:46 PM

On the turn I cap for three reasons: (1) I am ahead of every hand except JJ and an unlikely Q9, (2) there is a flush draw out there, so I should be value raising in case somebody is hanging out, and (3) I need to punish AA-QQ if they are in the hand.

I finish the turn after the cap and I still think I am ahead, so I bet the river. A raise on the river has me seriously worried though. I have fairly aggressive post flop AF numbers (around 3.0), but a raise after a 4th street cap always gets me to slow down. Whereas I will happily cap 4th street on many hands short of the nuts, particularly when there is a draw.

So after the river raise, Im hating it. In fact, I fully expected to lose the pot to JJ.