would you lay this down?

[jojobinks]

i folded, but wasn't happy. this is a 10+1 at pp. would have reraised a month ago. is folding right here? results later, if they're interesting to people.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1200)
UTG (t895)
UTG+1 (t970)
UTG+2 (t685)
Hero (t740)
MP2 (t385)
MP3 (t495)
CO (t740)
Button (t1175)
SB (t715)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t125</font>

i fold...

[assron]

I have a hard time laying down AK in any game where my opponents will routinely reraise with AQ

[ChrisV]

Call and take a flop. They aren't very likely to have AA or KK, because you have an ace or king in your hand. Also if they have KK you can still try to flop an ace.

You can often take the pot off them on a lot of other flops if they have an unpaired hand and don't flop anything.

[gh9801]

I'm assuming you have little or no reads on the players involved. Since the raiser could have Ax or Kx or a pocket pair and the reraiser could have hands like AJ, I would just call preflop and see what develops on the flop.

[Travis]

Jojo,

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on why you'd lay down AKo here preflop to a minraise and a reraise. Of the three options, raising, folding and calling, I've got to think folding is the worst option. Especially since you've got position on both of them. Absent a read I have a hard time giving too much respect to the min raise and the reraise could be quite a wide range of hands.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming you have little or no reads on the players involved. Since the raiser could have Ax or Kx or a pocket pair and the reraiser could have hands like AJ, I would just call preflop and see what develops on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just calling here cripples Hero's stack. It's either push or fold.

With a raise AND a reraise, I'm folding. We're probably up against a pair here. I don't want to hurt my ITM chances by taking a probable coinflip so early in the game.

If I read some modicum of discipline from the earlier actions of the villains, I'd probably push. But in $10+1, 22-TT WILL call you here.

EDIT: AK is like the US military: use it to project power, but try not to get in a fight. (er, not counting the current administration's misuse /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[willie24]

i would've pushed. folding isnt terrible, but I do think it's wrong.

i personally would not call, but if you had a good read on these players and had reason to believe you could gain something by seeing a flop, i guess i couldn't be certain that you would be wrong to do so.

[ChrisV]

Yike. I completely misread the hand. I thought Hero raised and then folded to the reraise.

Anything other than folding to a raise/reraise with AK is out of the question.

[jojobinks]

why i folded: this is early on in a 10+1. play is crazy in these, and i consider myself a strong player at this level. if i push, i'm likely to get 2 callers, and maybe more: who knows? there're, what, 7 players left to act? this is the first round of play. it costs me nothing to fold. i believe i'll get in the money without this hand.

so it's a fold. discuss?

[wbrumfiel]

I understand that thinking but I think Id still take a flop. Its early but if you take out JJ with AK early you also have 2x the amount of chips to coast into the money with.

[Irieguy]

Folding is fine, and is what I would tell somebody to do if they were asking me what I think they should do.

Pushing is the best option if you are a marginal winner with no post flop skill at all.

I would call and play my AK for value with position on these two monkeys. Jacks and Queens by the reraiser as well as weaker aces by the minraiser will all pay you off nicely enough when you make a K or A on the flop to make the implied odds attractive here. There's a good chance you'll get to see 4 cards, too, before facing a bet.

Also, if the re-raiser is a 2+2er and read the recent post about pocket 10's from the BB, there's a chance he only has 10's and will fire a bet into a board with a King on it to "find out where he is." You can then call him on the flop and bet half the pot on the turn, forcing him to call because if you had AK you surely would have raised him on the flop. Then you can make a bus-fare bet on the river, which he will be forced to call because he's "invested so much already into the pot." Always nice when a value play doubles you up in level 1 because somebody decided that 10's were a premium hand.

Irieguy

[willie24]

[ QUOTE ]
You can then call him on the flop and bet half the pot on the turn, forcing him to call because if you had AK you surely would have raised him on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

while this could concievably be +chip EV, it is borderline absurd to try on level 1 of a tournament.

on the flop, what remains of your stack is barely bigger than the preflop pot...

[willie24]

the reason you push preflop is not so that you can hide your poor postflop play. its so you can get AJ and AQ and KQ and all that other garbage to either surrender right now or give you a whole bunch of chips.

if you see a flop and you don't pair, you are giving away a ton to AQ when you fold to his bet.

if you are up against 1 or 2 underpairs, a push is great. most of the time you will be able to fold them preflop. if they call, you're fine.

If you're up against AA you are screwed. this is why it helps to have some read on your opponent. what does the minireraise mean? a huge hand or does he do that sort of thing often?

it is true that if you are really good you might be able to somehow take a couple extra chips from your opponents by calling. but, no matter how good you are, it's not worth it in a tournament- because in order to get those chips, you will necessarily have to risk your whole stack MORE OFTEN. that is, by calling, you will be eliminated more frequently than by pushing (if you play to maximize your chips postflop).