40-80 Turn Play

[Jeffage]

Playing in a good 40-80 game at Borgata. On this hand, a few people are walking, folded to me in LP and I raise with K10o. Only the BB calls...he is a seemingly solid regular; he has some game though and will checkraise-bluff, etc. if he feels its the right play (this seems to happen a lot in this game...even 3-betting the turn on a semibluff). The flop comes Q-2-3 rainbow. He checks, I bet, he calls. The turn is an offsuit 10. He checks, I check. The river is a 5. He bets, I call. Comments? Results later.

Jeff

[Diplomatdcm]

what day was this, you know what the players name was?
Dave

[Stork]

If he does a fair bit of bluff-raising why not give him an opportunity to do it when you hit your pair on the turn?

[Jonny]

I'd probably bet the turn, but a bluff induction is not bad either. I think the turn is close either way.

[Jeffage]

Dave,

It was Sunday afternoon. Not sure of the guy's name because I'm not a Borg regular...he was mid 30's-40's,clean-cut, and liked betting the horses, gave everyone tips on the tracks, etc.

Jeff

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
If he does a fair bit of bluff-raising why not give him an opportunity to do it when you hit your pair on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

agree

[AviD]

Slicked back hair? Italian looking? Little heavy set?

[Jeffage]

He does do his share of fancy moves, but would he really pick this board to try to bluff raise me? I could have AQ and will probably see the river in this game with AK. I could also have a stronger hand. On a queen-rag board, I don't know if he'd call the flop, checkraise turn with total garbage. Make the flop JJ9 or something maybe. He could have flopped a set or 2's or 3's or has some kind of queen. Plus the check could induce a bluff on the end or I value bet if checked to..just some thoughts. More comments appreciated (sorry if this rambling, I'm kinda drugged up on cold medicine right now).

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Hmmm...yes on the first two descriptions, but I don't think he was fat. He seemed thin/average to me, but I didn't see him stand up (then again, I'm a little heavy set myself, so maybe my judgement is off). He always had a racebook in his hand...tries to keep the game moving...slicked back hair, italian looking i guess (I'm bad with that). I know he is a very regular player there (and he's not the guy that always falls asleep at the table and never leaves).

Jeff

[AviD]

Hrm the guy I'm thinking isn't too tricky and doesn't pull many moves though. But he does fall asleep at the table, is a racebook junky and very regular...and occassionally smells from "residual" visits to his room and/or car for some quick "smokes".

Probably not the same guy though, as he tends to sit 40/80 when he is stuck and is pretty tight except when he gets into sleep deprivation and/or is winning alot.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
slicked back hair, italian looking

[/ QUOTE ]


In New Jersey? No!

This is up there with the other night at Foxwoods when they paged Tony from New York.

And Al Pacino says, Hoo-AH!

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[AviD]

LOL OK, so that "read" doesn't offer much info...bs hax! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TStoneMBD]

i will check behind on the turn now and then for metagame considerations, but in general i believe that betting here is the +EV play. villain could have a gutshot draw or an overcard, and your hand has alot of valuebetting potential.

[Stork]

Point taken, there is a decent chance he'd fold on the turn, but since you raised from late position preflop he might expect you to be on a steal that you have no reason to back down from yet since no one has raised you. And also, if you bet the turn and he calls you could then consider trying to induce a bluff on the river. I have no idea which line would work better against this opponent, I'm just voicing my thoughts here.

[El Dukie]

[ QUOTE ]
if you bet the turn and he calls you could then consider trying to induce a bluff on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh....how's he going to do that with position on the BB?

FWIW, I like the check behind on the turn to induce the river bluff when you're heads-up. You caught enough to call him on the river, so give him the chance to fire at it. I'm not sure if it maximizes EV, but it's going to lower your variance when BB is looking to CR the turn with a good hand.

[Jeffage]

He bet the river, I called. He showed 66 and seemed really disgusted when I showed the 10's. I'm not sure what he would have done if I bet the turn. He may have raised, he may have called on the turn and river (or maybe just the turn hoping for check-check on the end). Interesting hand. I think checking the turn is often optimal in these spots though. More comments appreciated.

Jeff

[AviD]

Jeffage:

Again, not sure if we are talking the same guy, but if we are...he's folding to a turn bet (unless he is in his falling asleep and/or running good mode in which case he'll likely call the turn bet) but will certainly bet the river as he'll feel he has the best hand.