Paying gambling taxes with insufficient records

[Jellyroll]

Hey all,

I've done my research so far, but am still unable to find an answer to my question:

I started playing poker last year, and ended the year with net winnings of +$10,000. After winning about $3 or $4k, I began to consider poker taxes and then started keeping good records. My only problem is that I do not have records for the first $3k or so of my winnings.

My question is, how do I account for this on my taxes? I need to write in my winnings and losses, but only have partial records. I haven't added up my sessions yet, but my numbers might look something like:

Net Gains (bank records) +$10,000

Gambling winnings (partial records) $15,000
Gambling losses (partial records) -$8,000
Net Gains (partial records) +$7,000

I'd assume that this is common, as someone starting poker doesn't start logging their first session. Although, I can't find any info on this.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

JellyRoll

[Uglyowl]

Put it down the best you can. Chances are that will be the end of it. If the IRS decides to look further then you can dig more.

If you are being honest and not trying to evade taxes there isn't a huge worry.

[o0mr_bill0o]

can you e-mail support at the website for transaction histories? or is a lot of this stuff done at a b&m? especially if it's at a b&m, i wouldn't worry too badly.

[jon593]

well i wouldnt worry about what you did before just worry about what you can remeber and report that. then next year is when you keep complete records and write down what you deposited and cashout and figure out profit

[Corey]

It must be said again that tracking deposits/cashouts will not stand up to IRS scrutiny. It is based on sessions.

Click Here (http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Articles-Notes/Gambling-Session.htm) for one take on defining a session.

[Jellyroll]

Yeah, I was thinking this. I play primarily on Party Poker where they do have a session log. Although, it's only goes back a short period of time. I want to say something like a few weeks. I'll email their staff and see if they can help me. I think my Poker Tracker session log should do for the most part though.

[gila]

I tried this already, no responce. If you have any luck please let me know. I could really use PP records from early in the year. My coldrum is even worse. I sucked at the beggining of the year, lost about 7000, got pissed, learned how to play, played proper limits, and have made about 12000 on last half of year. BUT no records for the losses!! Only since I started winning (and taking things serious) did I keep records.

Any thoughts on this?

[Uglyowl]

Get bank or credit card statements for the $ you deposited

[Niediam]

I really dont think the IRS is going have a big problem if you just make a realistic estimate (and they won't even know that you estimated unless you are audited) as long as all other tax information is legit. Of course this is just my opinion and I could be very wrong. /images/graemlins/smile.gif And make sure that you are itemizing your deductions...

[Uglyowl]

Pack up and get ready for jail. You are screwed.

[Niediam]

Eh? I don't see how my reply is significantly different than your first post on this thread.

[Uglyowl]

It's not I was busting his chops. I am in the same boat as he is. I used to keep a spreadsheet and got destroyed by when my computer went kaput. I know how much my net is by my bank statements. If it isn't enough, I will deal with it then, I am not trying to short change anyone.

Think of all the grannies who a little at slots then lose then go back for more... you think they are keeping records... hell no.

[Niediam]

I'd honestly guess that the vast majority of people who show some sort of net profit at gambling (casino, internet, and home games) don't report any income from it on their taxes...

[sfwusc]

http://live.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13166

Why can't you just do this? I made more from poker than my TA job!

I played a good bit. I dont really have a choice. I have no records other than the net winnings. I have no idea the session to session amounts.

[Uglyowl]

Also I did not go into this thinking I would make much money.. it was just for fun starting out.

[sfwusc]

They are making it to hard to be honest.

SFWUSC

[Niediam]

For a lot of people who have only a small net profit (I'm thinking under 1K) its almost silly to be honest because you will have sometimes owe your entire net profit (or believe it or not sometimes more).

[Shoe]

Oh i hope that Bush gets rid of the income tax and replaces it with a national sales tax.

[richie]

I think alot of people may be in this situation. I also have kept insufficient records, mainly due to bonus whoring. I used to only play LHE, and used pokertracker to keep track. But I cannot store stud and Omaha games in PT /images/graemlins/frown.gif , which I have played alot when whoring other sites. Add the casino whoring, bonuses made, etc. it becomes quite a nightmare /images/graemlins/confused.gif. I do have records of total deposits and withdrawls, though, plus beginning balances, and most of my poker wins and losses. I also have B&M losses to account for, plus a week trip to vegas, and my local casinos /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Haven't figured all of it yet, but I probably have a net gain of 20K or so (about 40K wins, 20K in losses). Hopefully the IRS will be happy to see the check I send them and not pester me about it. There has to be bigger fish to fry than myself /images/graemlins/smile.gif. This year I bought StatKing and I document EVERYTHING now. It's amazing how difficult the IRS makes this.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Think of all the grannies who a little at slots then lose then go back for more... you think they are keeping records... hell no.


[/ QUOTE ]

The casino keeps records for them electronically. I request my records annually from the casinos I frequent. They track my table game play as well as the small amount I insert into the slots.

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think of all the grannies who a little at slots then lose then go back for more... you think they are keeping records... hell no.


[/ QUOTE ]

The casino keeps records for them electronically. I request my records annually from the casinos I frequent. They track my table game play as well as the small amount I insert into the slots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if you have a players card you can request the amounts you have won/lost on slots and table games. They don't track this information in the poker rooms though.

[MicroBob]

these are also not accurately tracked on table-games either.
Even if you don't put some chips in your pocket or if you don't get up and leave without fully checking-out the floor can easily miss buy-ins that you had, etc.


It is not even close to accurate on table-games for many lower-limit gamblers.
And it is sometimes not terribly accurate even for guys betting $100 a hand and up. Although if you are betting with purple-chips the casino can pretty much just count how many purple they started with and how many they had at the finish.

For the red and green-chippers though this is NOT an accurate way of knowing how much you won or lost session by session. It is a decent approximation for the casino to be able to follow what kind of gambler you are....but for your individual purposes it just isn't accurate enough imo.