would you fold KK here? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Okee

01-31-2005, 03:46 AM

SB (~2800)
Hero (~650 after posting the BB)
UTG (~2050)
UTG+1 (~1800)
MP1 (~650)
LP1 (~1800)
button (~550)
BB is 100.
Preflop: Hero is BB with KK.
UTG raises to 250, UTG2 calls, MP1 raises all in (to 650), folds around to Hero in the BB.

Sorry about the sloppy hand history; did it from memory. I know the chips don't add up to 10,000 /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Game is UB, $22.

So, I got KK and am desparate. UTG is a tight, solid player. +1 is loose-passive, MP1 is loose aggressive. So I expect at least one more call, even if I go all-in (raising it another 100). Even if I have the best hand there's a good chance of getting cooked. If I fold, I may see 1 or even 2 players eliminated (narrowing the field to 5 or 6), but leaving me in even more desparate chip position.

Slim Pickens

01-31-2005, 03:54 AM

I only fold if I'm in the can. Seriously, you should be so lucky as to have lots of preflop action holding KK while shortstacked. You will have to at least double up to make it ITM, and this looks like a great place to try it. Fold this and you'll probably be looking at a similar situation in two orbits, but with a worse hand a fewer chips.

Slim

SuitedSixes

01-31-2005, 03:58 AM

Push.

ChrisV

01-31-2005, 04:18 AM

Don't push. Not straightaway.

First, point your finger in the general direction of MP, UTG, and UTG+1. Scream the following:

"KINGS! YOU LIKE THAT? YEAH! YOU LOVE IT!"

Then shake your fist at the screen and intone the following prayer:

COME ON BABY! ONE TIME!

OK. Now push.

SuitedSixes

01-31-2005, 04:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't push. Not straightaway.

First, point your finger in the general direction of MP, UTG, and UTG+1. Scream the following:

"KINGS! YOU LIKE THAT? YEAH! YOU LOVE IT!"

Then shake your fist at the screen and intone the following prayer:

COME ON BABY! ONE TIME!

OK. Now push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then scream, "Ship it!"

eastbay

01-31-2005, 04:42 AM

networkman

01-31-2005, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't push. Not straightaway.

First, point your finger in the general direction of MP, UTG, and UTG+1. Scream the following:

"KINGS! YOU LIKE THAT? YEAH! YOU LOVE IT!"

Then shake your fist at the screen and intone the following prayer:

COME ON BABY! ONE TIME!

OK. Now push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then scream, "Ship it!"

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the screaming will be when the ace flops.....LOL

rachelwxm

01-31-2005, 01:25 PM

If you fold, you could quit playing poker. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

adanthar

01-31-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
.

[/ QUOTE ]I skimmed it, and no

Okee

01-31-2005, 05:54 PM

yeah, yeah ok,ok, so y'all aggree and I of course did what you said. I got both the other calls and so it was a 4-way all-in for me. As it turns out I did have the best hand and everyone had an underpair. Problem w/ this situation is that I only have a slightly better than 50% chance to win the hand; but if i do i almost quadrupal up! (which i didn't /images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Now what about this situation: let's say i'm not on the short stack. Let's say there's 6 people at the table, BB is 150, there is a big raise from someone who can cover my all-in, and at least one all-in ahead of me; meaning that I might face the same situation again. I've got, say, 2500 chips; which is enough to have almost a sure thing of making it to the final 3 if 2 people get eliminated here. Still do it?

willie24

01-31-2005, 06:01 PM

huh? are you kidding? easiest call ive ever seen.

willie24

01-31-2005, 06:07 PM

yes, of course.

i don't understand your reasoning. you have a great chance to take FIRST place. you're going to give that up to have a better chance of taking 3rd?

you should never*, ever fold KK in any tournament once the blinds are more than about 1/70th your stack. the time you should fold it when the blinds are less than that will come maybe once every 2 years: so you can safely ignore it without seeing any observable drop in your profits.

*yes i am disregarding the bubble situation when you have 7 chips left and the big blind is 500 where you should fold every hand.

FoldingAAPolice

01-31-2005, 06:14 PM

Slim Pickens

01-31-2005, 06:20 PM

This probably even better for you. You get more chips when you win, and if the big stack is pushing ahead of you, he's got a premium holding (or is stealing, in which case you've caught him). The only one you don't dominate is AA. Really, if this play is too much of a gamble for you, it's time to consider quitting poker and putting your bankroll in a savings account.

Okee

01-31-2005, 09:00 PM

CITIZENS,

WE HAVE RECEIVED A TIP OF POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY IN THIS THREAD AND ARE INVESTIGATING. PLEASE DO NOT BE ALARMED. IF THERE ARE ANY FURTHER REPORTS OF FOLDING AA OR ITS CLOSE COUSIN PREFLOP IN THIS THREAD WE WILL TAKE APPROPRIATE AND IMMEDIATE ACTION.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

lol, ok, i get the picture. Here's another one for you as long as you are the police: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1643961&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=all&vc=1

Mammux

01-31-2005, 10:10 PM

I actually had a situation a couple of days ago where I should have folded KK.

£100 sng. 4 players left (chips counts before posting blinds):

utg (~5200 chips)
button: me (203 chips)
sb (~4300 chips)
bb (213 chips)

Blinds are 200/400. utg goes all-in, I have KK.

-Magnus

BigHobo

01-31-2005, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I actually had a situation a couple of days ago where I should have folded KK.

£100 sng. 4 players left (chips counts before posting blinds):

utg (~5200 chips)
button: me (203 chips)
sb (~4300 chips)
bb (213 chips)

Blinds are 200/400. utg goes all-in, I have KK.

-Magnus

[/ QUOTE ]

No way I fold KK here. With the big stack all in you can assume the small blind is folding and then it's just two players left. There's still a decent chance that the small stack will win (which will leave him enough chips to fold the SB)and that will leave you all-in on the BB shortly thereafter with a hand no doubt far worse than KK.

I take my chances with KK.

ChrisV

01-31-2005, 10:50 PM

To some extent it depends on UTG, but I don't think you should generally fold here.

rachelwxm

02-01-2005, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Problem w/ this situation is that I only have a slightly better than 50% chance to win the hand;

[/ QUOTE ]
are you not happy about 100% instant return?? If you don't like take chances, why do you play poker?

[ QUOTE ]

Now what about this situation: let's say i'm not on the short stack. Let's say there's 6 people at the table, BB is 150, there is a big raise from someone who can cover my all-in, and at least one all-in ahead of me; meaning that I might face the same situation again. I've got, say, 2500 chips; which is enough to have almost a sure thing of making it to the final 3 if 2 people get eliminated here. Still do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is some very wired situations when you should fold AA or KK, maybe once in your life time. And most of times you think you should, you should NOT.

If everyone is allin and I am sure to get ITM, I would fold AA if I only have 1 chips left. /images/graemlins/cool.gif