HU vs a 2+2er...

[btspider]

Button is a 2+2er. I'm pretty sure he knows I'm 2+2 as well.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

I intend to check-call, check-call, and reevaluate on the river. unexpected check behind.. i now intend to see a showdown as cheaply as possible (check-calling it down).

Turn: (2.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Hero checks with the intention of calling a bet.

[Stork]

Ok, this might seem a little wierd, and probably isn't what you were looking for, but imagine taking this line: After button raises preflop, 3-bet. Try for a check-raise on the flop. Whether he bets or not, lead the turn. If he raises the turn, fold. If he calls the turn, check-call or check-fold the river.
Haha I suck

[Fat Nicky]

I think you need to bet out on the turn after the flop checked through. You'd hate to give a free card to someone folding AK.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to bet out on the turn after the flop checked through. You'd hate to give a free card to someone folding AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give a free card to ANYONE that's just going to fold AK!

[sthief09]

I can't imagine what he could have that makes his flop play correct. I'm not so sure a river call would be profitable. if he'd check through the flop with AK, then he'd probably check through the river as well. I think you'd be better off betting and hoping he pays you off with AK or AJ, folding to a raise. I think that makes you less of an underdog. check-folding would be ok too. his flop play seems like an obvious slowplay, and his flop check wouldn't correlate with a turn check at all

bettign the turn seems unnecessary to me. if he has AK, he'll take a stab here. he has to

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to bet out on the turn after the flop checked through. You'd hate to give a free card to someone folding AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give a free card to ANYONE that's just going to fold AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd gladly give a free card to a 7 outer? if he has AK, clearly it's right to bet

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to bet out on the turn after the flop checked through. You'd hate to give a free card to someone folding AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd hate to bet into QQ/99.. or would it be very easy to fold to a raise?

he could be isolation raising a huge range of hands here though. would he semi-bluff raise a wide range as well?

[7ontheline]

Read that post again carefully. . .

[sthief09]

tricky bastards

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine what he could have that makes his flop play correct. I'm not so sure a river call would be profitable. if he'd check through the flop with AK, then he'd probably check through the river as well. I think you'd be better off betting and hoping he pays you off with AK or AJ, folding to a raise. I think that makes you less of an underdog. check-folding would be ok too. his flop play seems like an obvious slowplay, and his flop check wouldn't correlate with a turn check at all

bettign the turn seems unnecessary to me. if he has AK, he'll take a stab here. he has to

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is a better line. i think AK/AJ/PP's should be betting the turn despite the flop check, so I still get the one bet per street in.

the river bet-fold sounds good. keeping with my original plan of way ahead/behind. i *really* wanted to see a showdown. i was unsure if he'd call with AK/AJ or if he'd recognize the line and put me on a weak holding and bluff raise my river bet. i suppose this pot is too small for him to bluff at.

results:
river: check-check
villian tables AJ

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to bet out on the turn after the flop checked through. You'd hate to give a free card to someone folding AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give a free card to ANYONE that's just going to fold AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

Meant to type 'holding'....not folding

sorry for the confusion

[ghostface]

Here I knew it was a 2+2er and hitting nothing on the flop in a tiny pot I didnt feel like betting the flop with my AJ.

On the turn I thought I would take a stab when the bet size doubled.

Also AK is not a 7 outer, its a 3 outer with heros A kicker. I wouldnt mind giving a free card in this small pot to induce a bluff on the river. Either way hero got the same amount of bets out of me.
When hero called I was done with the hand.

I didnt bet the flop for the silly reason that I knew he would call if he got a piece of the flop. My line let me get to the showdown at least.... How bad was it when compared to betting the flop that didnt help me?

I was also really pissed off about now having a bad run that day so it may reflect a little in my play...

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
Also AK is not a 7 outer, its a 3 outer with heros A kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is on the turn when you pick up a gutshot...

[sthief09]

regularly checking through the flop headsup with A high is probably a mistake. he limped. give him the opportunity to fold something he'd be correct to call withthat.

[MaxPower]

Terrible line.

The vast majority of the time he is going to have nothing or a small pair that he might fold.

You say he would call if he hit a piece of the flop. So if he calls your flop bet he either has a piece of the flop or JT. If he raises, you fold. Why would you not want to bet when a bet will give you so much information about his hand?

If he calls, you can check behind on the turn or fold if he bets. If you take a free card, you can fold unless you improve. It only costs you one small bet.

The way you played it, you passed up a situation where you could take a shot at the pot getting 4:1 odds for one where you were only getting about 2:1 odds.

The fact is that on a ragged rainbow flop like this you should be able to play your hand almost perfectly against the 2+2er. Why would you check when you can play your hand perfectly?

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that on a ragged rainbow flop like this you should be able to play your hand almost perfectly against the 2+2er. Why would you check when you can play your hand perfectly?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that betting the flop is probably best, if this statement is true, the "2+2er", which usually implies a good player on these boards, is playing quite poorly.

The whole reason to avoid confrontations with good players is that you know in advance you will not be able to play your hand perfectly.


Good luck.
Eric

[MaxPower]

Eric,

I understand what you are saying, but in this particular situation I think you can play almost perfectly if the EP player is a typical 2+2er. If the board were not rainbow or if it was more connected, if you didn't have position, or if the pot was much larger, then it would be more difficult.