1/2 NL Live KQs Hand

[DoubleDown]

was asked to re-post this as a new thread instead of a reply w/in a thread dealing with playing KQs.

1/2 NL Live. 10 players.

Table is playing very loose preflop... most players are trying to just limp in and see a cheap flop, but will fold to a substantial PFR. Table is about to break apart as all games will be ending in 5 mins.

Villain in this hand had been playing TAG nearly all nite on our previous table before we were forced to combine tables. He has been tilting after losing 2 large pots in the past 1/2 hour, after being called down on the river and having to show 2 no-pair hands. Played very LAG on hands shown. Hero considers me a tight player from hands i had shown down in the past 3-4 hours of playing with him at a different table. [however, i'm not sure if he is in a state of mind to consider his opponents table image at this point... he came back to the table looking pretty baked about 1/2 hr ago following a 15 min 'smoke' break]

Hero (~$225) is MP w/KQs. Nearly entire table limps to villain (~$600+) who makes it $20 to go. [Note standard open-raise in this game is $12-$15.] All folds to Hero, who calls; rest of the table folds.

Flop (~$55) K /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero Checks. Villain Checks.

I figured the villain for a flop bet and planned to C/R the flop. Once that window closed, I planned to C/R the turn.

Turn (~$55) K /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero Checks. Villain bets $25.

Your move? ... results to follow ...

BTW- the most common advice I'm expecting to hear is fold pre-flop ... I agree with it 100% ... the reason for my posting is b/c there was a prior discussion in the forum of playing KQ so i thought I'd post b/c the later streets offered some possible strategic decisions to be discussed

[tbach24]

I won't mention fold pre-flop. Bet the flop and give it up to re-raises. Since you didn't, raise the turn.

[DoubleDown]

Turn play following Villain's $25 bet:

Hero C/R to $90. Villain re-raise all-in. Hero calls, villain flips over 99.

No Help on the river.

[TheWorstPlayer]

If I were you, I would have made this post say "I C/R to $90 and he moves all-in. What should I do?" and then a lot of people, myself included, would have told you to fold.

[DoubleDown]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were you, I would have made this post say "I C/R to $90 and he moves all-in. What should I do?" and then a lot of people, myself included, would have told you to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Following along with this theme ... would it be correct to fold for my remaining $110 with a pot of ~$350 ... villain could very well hold a hand like AQ, PP w/ a /images/graemlins/club.gif, bare A /images/graemlins/club.gif, etc. and could be semi-bluffing? or he could be on an all-out bluff?

If he has a made hand I still have outs to redraw against a straight, low set, and flush.

Would I be correct to assume I'd need ~11:1 pot odds to call the all-in if I were up against one of the aforementioned made hands?

my thinking at the time was that having the remaining outs to redraw to a better hand, coupled with the fact that it was quite likely that villain could be on a semi-bluff/all-out bluff, I was making the right move by calling.

Problems with that logic?

[coltrane]

preflop is possibly the only street I like - and that's assuming you feel you can play well postflop against this tilting opponent with a decent amount of money (so maybe I don't like it)......

flop check is fine, but with the intention of checkraising?....why?......for value?......what is he going to call with that you're ahead of?.....as a bluff?....save that for when you have rags....and what if he pushes to your checkraise?......keep in mind he's practically even money with your hand if he has just the lone A /images/graemlins/club.gif.....

bet the turn.....why would you check there?.....what if he checks behind with J /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif?......lead out for a good amount on the turn, now his holding will become clear....if he calls, what is he gonna just call with?....a club probably (and he's not getting odds to draw plus it's obvious if he hits on the river) or maybe something like AQ (but now you're way ahead of him and the pot is still small and you'll have lots of options depending on the river).....

if he raises on the turn (which he certainly would have in this case), what could he be raising with?.....here's where you'll have to make your read.....is he a tricky enough player to raise on just a draw?.....could he have a set?....or the nut flush?......or is he really proud of his A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif?.....depending on how much he raised, I'd probably call his raise.....now if the river brings a club, it's gonna slow him down if he's got a set and it's gonna be an easy fold for you if you make him for a club.....do you see how betting the turn gives you more info, controls the pot more efficiently, lets you win more when you're ahead, and lose less when you're behind?.....

[TheWorstPlayer]

You need to be getting at least 10:1 to draw to four outs with only one card remaining.

Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing Qs Kc 9c 3c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Qd 4 9.09 40 90.91 0 0.00 0.091
9s 9d 40 90.91 4 9.09 0 0.00 0.909