80-160 Hand

[HiatusOver]

Full game with 2 spots

UTG in this hand is loose and kinda passive.
BB in this hand is loose and kinda aggressive.

The "kind of's" are a result of not playing with them more than once before and also because they seem to not always fall in line and sometimes will suprise you with there passive/aggressiveness.

The Hand : UTG limps, folded to me in the Cut-Off and I raise with K /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif...BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop : A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, UTG bets, I RAISE

How am I doing so far?

What if the Big Blind was Mason Malmuth?

[luong223]

ur playing this hand the way that i would hav

[Clarkmeister]

I like the flop raise as it will be interpreted as "not a monster" most of the time. I'd raise AA here too.

[Paluka]

Seems fine to me.

[HiatusOver]

As a sidebar, if I was on the button I would have limped with K9s here but in the cut-off my default is to raise in this spot to buy the button. Is this what everyone is doing or am I overdoing it?

[Clarkmeister]

I had a long response typed up where I said I'd fold or just call against good UTG's, but then saw that UTG was "loose and passive", in which case I'd just go ahead and raise from either the CO or the button.

[HiatusOver]

Clark I definitely agree with the concept of raising 3 nines here to disguise the "monster"...on a flop of this texture though my raise definitely looks like an ace atleast. I guess there isnt anyway around it though really.

[HiatusOver]

Yea, against a good UTG a fold is probably expert. The only consideration is a weakish player in the BB, but that might not turn it. Are you in general raising to buy the button a lot? Or are the hands you are raising from the cut-off pretty similiar to the hands you are raising from the button?

[Clarkmeister]

I just overlimp quite a bit. It enhances the stealing prospects and gives me true isolation raises some more merit. But those are more live game considerations than online I'd guess. The SB's tightness is maybe more of a factor to me than the button when deciding whether to raise or not.

[PassiveCaller]

If the SB was more like the BB how would you play it?

[roy_miami]

I would like it alot more if the flop was 992. Won't you make more inticing the BB to call by just smooth calling. UTG likely has the Ace and probably will go to showdown either way so you make an extra half a bet off him by popping the river. I would try to give the more aggressive BB a look at at least 1 more cheap card and probably pop the turn if its paint, maybe just smooth call anything lower than the 9 again. I have tried this trickery in similar situations before and it just ended up being the last chips put in the pot. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I just overlimp quite a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

[William Jockusch]

I think this is one of those situations where you have to mix it up.

In some games, I have the impression that if you call in that situation, people assume you are slowplaying, but if you raise they assume your hand is not that strong.

So, as long as you sometimes call and sometimes raise in that spot, I think you're doing fine.

Incidentally, on this particular flop, the two flush is a reason to raise a bit more often than you call.

[ggbman]

I'm going to offer a contrary opinion here. I don't mind the idea of raising to pretend you don't have a monster, but this is not a good board to do it on. You don't want to get him off A 10 or something like that when you bet the turn. If he's bulffing he folds right away. I just think calling here might get more money in the pot in the long run. That is just my opinion, but i do acknowledge the merit to what clarkmeister was saying.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
The Hand : UTG limps, folded to me in the Cut-Off and I raise with K 9 ...BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop : A 9 9

BB checks, UTG bets, I RAISE

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about pre-flop, aka NG. I think it's a reach. Flop - nice.

FWIW - meta game vs ev. There are spots you have to get out of line and go with the flow. Tilting and spewing chips are 2 things to avoid, if you can. Love the flop action here.

[TStoneMBD]

i dont like overlimping with this type of hand in the cutoff. on the button its more acceptable, in the CO i will generally raise rather than limp as long as the UTG limper is loose as you described. the opportunity to buy the button as well as get dead money in the pot from the blinds is worth the raise if your hand is worth playing for the most part. if the villain plays poorly postflop than you can begin to argue that implied odds play a role and therefore limping may be better than raising, but that is not how you described him. as for raising the flop, i think its ok, but i usually prefer raising the turn here. players will be inclined to call me down because i will raise the turn with many hands that i would call a river bet with when behind.

[elysium]

hi hi

well played. it's correct to value bet it on the flop from any position to make the draw pay. what are you doing when you make the draw pay? value betting.

why? because the draw will call.

value bets are bets made because the bet will be called.

[J_V]

You do this more than any other very good player I know. I don't do it nearly as much as you, but I like overlimping like Clark. The action in limped pots is less scripted and can be manipulated a little more - particularly with postion.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
on a flop of this texture though my raise definitely looks like an ace atleast

[/ QUOTE ]

...or any other pair, or a diamond draw raising for value, or a position raise against a weak field. If I were watching this hand from the rail, I wouldn't automatically go "oh, oh, he's got AK at least...he raised the flop". Flop raises mean next to nothing after a PFR, you're expected to do it regardless of what you have. Callling would have looked suspicious, raising could mean anything.

lf

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
hi hi

well played. it's correct to value bet it on the flop from any position to make the draw pay. what are you doing when you make the draw pay? value betting.

why? because the draw will call.

value bets are bets made because the bet will be called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant in its simplicity and accuracy. I think a common mistake in this kind of situation is only collecting one bet when the opponent would happily pay two. The only times I like to slow play are

1. the opposition won't call another bet or...
2. they are drawing dead and I can get a big bet or more after they miss and keep drawing or hit and think they have something.

great flop raise.

lf

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Hiatus:

The main focus of your strategy should be the bettor since there is only one player behind you and he has already passed. This is the case even if David Sklansky or Ray Zee were in the big blind.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Clark:

Since your hand is suited and if there were loose players still to act (the button and the blinds) I'm not so sure I would fold even against an expert. On the other hand, something like queen-ten offsuit should definitely hit the muck if a reasonably good player limped in.

Best wishes,
Mason

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you in general raising to buy the button a lot? Or are the hands you are raising from the cut-off pretty similiar to the hands you are raising from the button?

[/ QUOTE ]
I raise to buy the button pretty fequently, but one thing I want to work on is getting better at getting physical reads on the player(s) to my left so that I can tell when they are probably folding anyway. I want to work on physical stuff in general because it's one of the poker areas where I am weakest (since I have for years totally disregarded it as being less important than tactical and strategic ideas; that was probably the right thing to do, but I'm reaching the point where I need to focus on it a bit more), and one of the easiest times to get reads is on people who are folding preflop since they often don't try hard enough to conceal their lack of interest since they think it doesn't matter since they are folding no matter what anyway.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG likely has the Ace and probably will go to showdown either way so you make an extra half a bet off him by popping the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't rely on a passive player to bet the whole way including the river. For example, if diamonds get there, he might well check the river and you'll wish you had raised the flop because he is loose and would have called you all the way with his ace.