Will There Be A Draft?

[Blackjack]

All of you 18+ poker pros who arent college, you better get back to school unless you want to get shipped of to Iran!

What do you guys/gals think the chances are that George Bush starts another draft for a war in Iran or to supplement the infantry in Iraq?

Will there be another draft?

Also, if you're in college, you can get education deferment so you don't have to enter the draft. - True/False

Thoughts?

[guller]

1. 0%
2. No
3. Since there is no draft, there is no answer

[Steve McQueen]

1. 0%

2. No.

3. If a draft was implemented(which it won't be), there would be no Vietnam-like education deferments. You'd be allowed to finish your current semester. That's it.

[BCPVP]

The military, politicans, and citizens of America don't want a draft.
Stop peddling your nonsense.

[zaxx19]

All of you 18+ poker pros who arent college, you better get back to school unless you want to get shipped of to Iran!


LOOK AT HOW AT DESPERATE THE LIBERALS HAVE BECOME SINCE NEWS OF THE ELECTION HAS SPREAD.

2 CATACLYSMIC ELECTIONS IN 3 MONTHS..MORE REALITY THAN ANY LEFT WING NUT JOB CAN REASONABLY BE EXPECTED TO HANDLE.

SCARE THE OLD PEOPLE(SS REFORM LIES)
SCARE THE YOUNG PEOPLE(CRAP LIKE THIS)

Thats really the only option left to you when reality deals you such a cold deck.

[ChoicestHops]

The draft that's been floating around in Congress states that it doesnt matter if you or male or female, or if you are in school.

But, no there wont be a draft. I think if you wouldnt be willing to fight for your country, you should leave anyway.

[sirio11]

No, because in case more soldiers to fight wars are needed. The pro-war conservatives patriotic parents are sending their 18 years old to fight for their country. They'll be proud of their sons dying in such a noble cause like the Iraq war.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
No, because in case more soldiers to fight wars are needed. The pro-war conservatives patriotic parents are sending their 18 years old to fight for their country. They'll be proud of their sons dying in such a noble cause like the Iraq war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have redefined the art of incoherency. Incidentally, a draft will never happen. Want to know who will be most against it? People in the military now. As one of those people, I can tell you the last thing we want is a bunch of unmotivated people who dont really want to be there.

[QuadsOverQuads]

1. 99%

2. Very, very, very likely.

3. debatable, but as long as Republican donors have kids in college, those deferalls will probably stay for now (hell, Dick Cheney got five deferments himself). Of course, if that doesn't work, or you can't get into college because the costs have gone through the roof, you can always do what Rush Limbaugh did and get a medical waiver due to a "pilonidal cyst" (which, in layman's terms, is known as "a boil on the ass"). Or, if you're really lucky, you can call your daddy the Congressman and have him skip you over the waiting list so you can get into the Texas Air National Guard. Then, you can go AWOL, do a whole lot of cocaine, get busted, do some community service, have your daddy's friends clean the record up, have your daddy's friends get you into the oil business, fail miserably, have your daddy's friends get you a baseball team, have your daddy's friends set you up to run for governor, have your daddy's friends set you up to run for president, have your brother and your campaign co-chair rig the Florida vote for you, have your daddy's friends stop the vote-count and illegally install you into the oval office, preside over the worst intelligence failure in American history (3000 dead), lie the nation into a war of international aggression (1500 American soldiers dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis dead), and then you too can be hailed by Republicans as God's Chosen Leader For The Free World. Then you can start drafting other people's kids to go fight and die.


q/q

[BCPVP]

Adding on to vulture's point, training a soldier takes money so from a purely economic standpoint, it makes no sense to spend the thousands of dollars to train someone who doesn't want to do the job he's doing. Just like a business wouldn't hire someone and waste money training someone who didn't want to work there. Get it?

[Felix_Nietsche]

Besides draft legislation was brought last year.
by DEMOCRATS Fritz Hollings(D.SC) and Charlie Rangle(D,NY).

The Repulicans voted UNANIMOUSLY against it.

It is the Democrats like Hollings and Rangle trying to bring the draft back. Do your homework...

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides draft legislation was brought last year.
by DEMOCRATS Fritz Hollings(D.SC) and Charlie Rangle(D,NY).

[/ QUOTE ]

100% true. They introduced a bill which would give Bush the draft he wanted, BUT: without any deferments or loopholes (you know, the kind virtually every Republican in Congress or the executive branch used themselves).

[ QUOTE ]
The Repulicans voted UNANIMOUSLY against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they did. Imagine that.

[ QUOTE ]
It is the Democrats like Hollings and Rangle trying to bring the draft back. Do your homework...

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to be a honest-to-god moron to believe that, and I mean that sincerely. They put out a bill that said: "ok, you want to set up a draft? Fine. But there will be NO deferments for the wealthy and the well-connected. You want a draft, EVERYBODY is eligible." THAT is the bill they introduced, and, as you correctly pointed out, the Republicans voted UNANIMOUSLY against it. The Republicans want those loopholes to stay, and they're hell-bent on making sure they do. Now, gee, why on earth would they want that? Especially when they're busy planning a whole series of middle east wars? Gee, that's a tough one, ain't it ...


q/q

[Dan Mezick]

The military draft bills are HR 163 and S89, be responsible. Read them.

HR 163 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:38:./temp/~c1081NW2u5::)

S89 (Senate version) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:37:./temp/~c1081NW2u5::)


[ QUOTE ]
SEC. 5. INDUCTION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Every person subject to induction for national service under this Act, except those whose training is deferred or postponed in accordance with this Act, shall be called and inducted by the President for such service at the time and place specified by the President.

(b) AGE LIMITS- A person may be inducted under this Act only if the person has attained the age of 18 and has not attained the age of 26.

(c) VOLUNTARY INDUCTION- A person subject to induction under this Act may volunteer for induction at a time other than the time at which the person is otherwise called for induction.

(d) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to induction under this Act shall, before induction, be physically and mentally examined and shall be classified as to fitness to perform national service. The President may apply different classification standards for fitness for military service and fitness for civilian service.

SEC. 6. DEFERMENTS AND POSTPONEMENTS.

(a) HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS- A person who is pursuing a standard course of study, on a full-time basis, in a secondary school or similar institution of learning shall be entitled to have induction under this Act postponed until the person--

(1) obtains a high school diploma;

(2) ceases to pursue satisfactorily such course of study; or

(3) attains the age of 20.

(b) HARDSHIP AND DISABILITY- Deferments from national service under this Act may be made for--

(1) extreme hardship; or

(2) physical or mental disability.

(c) TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.

(d) TERMINATION- No deferment or postponement of induction under this Act shall continue after the cause of such deferment or postponement ceases.

SEC. 7. INDUCTION EXEMPTIONS.

(a) QUALIFICATIONS- No person may be inducted for military service under this Act unless the person is acceptable to the Secretary concerned for training and meets the same health and physical qualifications applicable under section 505 of title 10, United States Code, to persons seeking original enlistment in a regular component of the Armed Forces.

(b) OTHER MILITARY SERVICE- No person shall be liable for induction under this Act who--

(1) is serving, or has served honorably for at least six months, in any component of the uniformed services on active duty; or

(2) is or becomes a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States

Merchant Marine Academy, a midshipman of a Navy accredited State maritime academy, a member of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or the naval aviation college program, so long as that person satisfactorily continues in and completes two years training therein.

SEC. 8. CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.

(a) CLAIMS AS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR- Any person selected under this Act for induction into the uniformed services who claims, because of religious training and belief (as defined in section 6(j) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 456(j))), exemption from combatant training included as part of that military service and whose claim is sustained under such procedures as the President may prescribe, shall, when inducted, participate in military service that does not include any combatant training component.

(b) TRANSFER TO CIVILIAN SERVICE- Any such person whose claim is sustained may, at the discretion of the President, be transferred to a national service program for performance of such person's national service obligation under this Act.

SEC. 9. DISCHARGE FOLLOWING NATIONAL SERVICE.

(a) DISCHARGE- Upon completion or termination of the obligation to perform national service under this Act, a person shall be discharged from the uniformed services or from civilian service, as the case may be, and shall not be subject to any further service under this Act.

(b) COORDINATION WITH OTHER AUTHORITIES- Nothing in this section shall limit or prohibit the call to active service in the uniformed services of any person who is a member of a regular or reserve component of the uniformed services.

SEC. 10. REGISTRATION OF FEMALES UNDER THE MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT.

(a) REGISTRATION REQUIRED- Section 3(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 453(a)) is amended--

(1) by striking `male' both places it appears;

(2) by inserting `or herself' after `himself'; and

(3) by striking `he' and inserting `the person'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 16(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 466(a)) is amended by striking `men' and inserting `persons'.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Felix_Nietsche]

DUHHHHHHHH !!!!
We Democrats don't want a draft so we Democrats will introduce draft legislation.
DUHHHHHHHHH !!!!

Wow....Democrats are SOOOOO Smart /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nice spin story.....but I'm not buying.
Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

[QuadsOverQuads]

"spin", my ass.

Rangel was absolutely up front about his intentions at the time he introduced the bill. If your news sources didn't report that, then you might want to reconsider just how "fair and balanced" they really are. This is simply a matter of getting your facts straight, and so far you clearly haven't done so.


q/q

[QuadsOverQuads]

Thanks for posting that, Dan.

You highlighted the "conscientious objector" portion (which is entirely subject to Presidential discretion, it should be noted), but I would also highlight two other elements. First, notice that the deferrment for college students has been removed. Second, notice (at the very bottom of the bill) that women are no longer exempted. You can get a deferral until you graduate from high school, but after that everyone's in the same boat. That was Rangel's point, and the Republicans shot it down without so much as a single supporting vote.


q/q

(note (just fyi): your links are broken because of an artifact of thomas.loc.gov's search engine -- search results expire after about one hour there, so links to those results expire after one hour too)

[Felix_Nietsche]

So Rangle voted for this bill...right? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

WRONG....Rangle joined the EVIL Republicans and voted AGAINST this bill. LOL !!! He voted against his own bill. LOL !!!

Everything you said has beem complete nonsense....... /images/graemlins/smile.gif
LOL !!!

How are you going to spin Rangle's ***NO*** vote. Mmmmmmm......????

[QuadsOverQuads]

Hey, Felix: you DO realize that you've just destroyed your own argument, right? I mean, if Rangel really "wanted to reinstate the draft", then why would he vote "no" on doing so?

Let me clear it up for you, since you're obviously having a hard time understanding what's happening here. He introduced the bill to make a point, to force the Republicans to make a public up-or-down vote on removing the draft exemptions that a lot of Republicans have previously used to escape the draft. He got that vote, and every single one of them -- without one single exception -- voted to keep those draft-exemptions in place. And now they're laying plans for a whole string of middle east wars. Can you connect the dots yet?


q/q

[BCPVP]

Who's your tin-hat supplier?

[Felix_Nietsche]

No...I already knew the story. As I said before. This is an OLD topic. Besides, I was having fun pushing your buttons and watching you make an a** out of youself with your kooky conspiracy theories. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here is the REAL story.
The Democrats knew they were in trouble in the Presidential elections and they were looking for votes. Especially among college students who historically have low voter turnout. So what tactic did the Dems use? FEAR..... They started draft rumors to try to scare students into voting Democrat...

In a lame attempt to embarrass Bush43. Hollings/Rangle introduced draft legislation. I saw Rangle on TV pitching his draft on TV. The Republicans got smart and called their bluff by bringing Rangle's bill up for a vote. The Dems and Rangle blinked... Rangle was ALL TALK, and NO ACTION.... He voted NO...

The truth about the Vietnam draft was the military hated it. Every criminal scumbag off the street was elgible to be drafted. The military breathed a sigh of relief when the draft was deactivated. Willing soldiers were always better soldiers..... I know because I was an officer in the Army and every Vietnam era officer I knew said the same thing...

You and the other draft rumor mongers are still trying to spread fear..... Geez....LEARN from the Democratic leadership and at LEAST wait to an election year before spreading these lies....

But thanks for some entertaining responses... As Rush Limbaugh says about his radio show, "The Liberals ARE the entertainment".

And you contradicted yourself, implying that Rangle wanted this bill. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
No...I already knew the story. As I said before. This is an OLD topic. Besides, I was having fun pushing your buttons and watching you make an a** out of youself with your kooky conspiracy theories. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here is the REAL story.
The Democrats knew they were in trouble in the Presidential elections and they were looking for votes. Especially among college students who historically have low voter turnout. So what tactic did the Dems use? FEAR..... They started draft rumors to try to scare students into voting Democrat...

In a lame attempt to embarrass Bush43. Hollings/Rangle introduced draft legislation. I saw Rangle on TV pitching his draft on TV. The Republicans got smart and called their bluff by bringing Rangle's bill up for a vote. The Dems and Rangle blinked... Rangle was ALL TALK, and NO ACTION.... He voted NO...

The truth about the Vietnam draft was the military hated it. Every criminal scumbag off the street was elgible to be drafted. The military breathed a sigh of relief when the draft was deactivated. Willing soldiers were always better soldiers..... I know because I was an officer in the Army and every Vietnam era officer I knew said the same thing...

You and the other draft rumor mongers are still trying to spread fear..... Geez....LEARN from the Democratic leadership and at LEAST wait to an election year before spreading these lies....

But thanks for some entertaining responses... As Rush Limbaugh says about his radio show, "The Liberals ARE the entertainment".

And you contradicted yourself, implying that Rangle wanted this bill. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And dont forget the backtracking after the fact, where the Dems claimed that it wasnt fair because there wasnt enough time to discuss the bill.

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
kooky conspiracy theories

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you wingnuts are nothing if not predictable /images/graemlins/smile.gif

That being said, if you're honestly gullible enough to believe Rush's claims that Charles Rangel (D-NY) was trying to score points with his (NY) constituents by subjecting all of them (including college students and women) to a military draft, well, I guess this probably explains how you ended up as a Republican. Enjoy that Kool-Aid, kid. And if reality starts to creep in, well, don't you worry: Rush will always be there to serve you up another glass. Drink up, I hear it'll get you closer to God.


q/q

[Felix_Nietsche]

I'm an atheist actually but thanks anyway. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for Rangle, he is in a 100% TOTALLY SAFE seat. Hollings was retiring. They could afford to try this strategy. Learn some polictical strategy son... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an atheist actually but thanks anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you have one less excuse than the average Republican.


q/q

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
1. 99%

2. Very, very, very likely.

3. debatable, but as long as Republican donors have kids in college, those deferalls will probably stay for now (hell, Dick Cheney got five deferments himself). Of course, if that doesn't work, or you can't get into college because the costs have gone through the roof, you can always do what Rush Limbaugh did and get a medical waiver due to a "pilonidal cyst" (which, in layman's terms, is known as "a boil on the ass"). Or, if you're really lucky, you can call your daddy the Congressman and have him skip you over the waiting list so you can get into the Texas Air National Guard. Then, you can go AWOL, do a whole lot of cocaine, get busted, do some community service, have your daddy's friends clean the record up, have your daddy's friends get you into the oil business, fail miserably, have your daddy's friends get you a baseball team, have your daddy's friends set you up to run for governor, have your daddy's friends set you up to run for president, have your brother and your campaign co-chair rig the Florida vote for you, have your daddy's friends stop the vote-count and illegally install you into the oval office, preside over the worst intelligence failure in American history (3000 dead), lie the nation into a war of international aggression (1500 American soldiers dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis dead), and then you too can be hailed by Republicans as God's Chosen Leader For The Free World. Then you can start drafting other people's kids to go fight and die.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how idiots like you are still so bitter about Bush winning two elections. Was this one rigged too, you fool?

Quit spewing general left-wing garbage and maybe try a little thing called "supporting facts". A draft is 99.9% going to be reinstated? Prove it.

Oh, and by the way, if you can't even get over 2000's election yet, you need a MAJOR reality check, buddy. Would you like some cheese with your whine?

[QuadsOverQuads]

And I love how all you right-wingers who love to pontificate about "democracy" in Iraq still want everyone to ignore what you did in 2000. Let's face it: "democracy" is just a word to you people, and you only "believe in democracy" when you think it's politically useful. No true American will ever get over the election fraud of 2000, nor should they. If you have a problem with that, well, too bad.


q/q

[AngryCola]

I was already going to post a reply on this thread, but I saw your post and had to respond.

Stop typing in all caps. It's very annoying.

Plus, your opinions are silly.

Thank you.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Will There Be A Draft?

[/ QUOTE ]

This quesiton is a bit vague. But you did specify Bush, so I feel that I can answer it.

Will there be a draft while Bush is in office?

No.

But it doesn't have as much to do with Bush as it does the current political environment.

Will there ever be a draft again?

Possibly.

It's very difficult to foresee the challenges our military will face in the future.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]

And I love how all you right-wingers who love to pontificate about "democracy" in Iraq still want everyone to ignore what you did in 2000. Let's face it: "democracy" is just a word to you people, and you only "believe in democracy" when you think it's politically useful. No true American will ever get over the election fraud of 2000, nor should they. If you have a problem with that, well, too bad.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]
I missed where you answered why Rangel voted against his own bill...
And thank goodness Al Gore didn't steal the election in 2000. We might have sacrificed 1/3 of the country to Al Qaeda by now!

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]

And I love how all you right-wingers who love to pontificate about "democracy" in Iraq still want everyone to ignore what you did in 2000. Let's face it: "democracy" is just a word to you people, and you only "believe in democracy" when you think it's politically useful. No true American will ever get over the election fraud of 2000, nor should they. If you have a problem with that, well, too bad.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never sufficient proof for anybody to show election fraud. You and all the other whiny "waaaaah, we lost, we have to make stuff up to attack Bush" people need to learn to face reality. None of your opinions in this thread are backed up by facts, and you still have yet to show us why you say there will "99.9% sure" be a draft. All you did was whine, bitch, and moan baselessly about Bush without any real argument. Post with at least SOME facts, or just go away.

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
Post at least some facts, or just go away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, let me just refresh your memory.

From my original reply:

Dick Cheney got five deferments himself

Fact.

you can always do what Rush Limbaugh did and get a medical waiver due to a "pilonidal cyst" (which, in layman's terms, is known as "a boil on the ass")

Fact.

Or, if you're really lucky, you can call your daddy the Congressman

Fact.

and have him skip you over the waiting list so you can get into the Texas Air National Guard.

Fact.

Then, you can go AWOL

Fact.

do a whole lot of cocaine

Fact.

get busted

Fact.

do some community service

Fact.

have your daddy's friends clean the record up

Fact.

have your daddy's friends get you into the oil business

Fact.

fail miserably

Fact.

have your daddy's friends get you a baseball team

Fact.

have your daddy's friends set you up to run for governor

Fact.

have your daddy's friends set you up to run for president

Fact.

have your brother and your campaign co-chair rig the Florida vote for you

Fact.

have your daddy's friends stop the vote-count and illegally install you into the oval office

Fact.

preside over the worst intelligence failure in American history (3000 dead)

FACT.

lie the nation into a war of international aggression (1500 American soldiers dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis dead)

Fact.

and then you too can be hailed by Republicans as God's Chosen Leader For The Free World.

Fact.

Then you can start drafting other people's kids to go fight and die.

(and the PR ramp-up is already in progress on this one).


q/q

[CORed]

I think it's about 50/50 that there will be a draft. The military is spread pretty thin, and I'm not sure that an all-volunteer army can support Bush's neo-colonial ventures. Whether there will be a student deferment will be up to Congress. The student deferment in the earlier incarnation of the draft was widely seen as discriminatory against pooor people (what isn't?). I t would not surprise me if there is no student deferment if the draft is re-instituted.

[BCPVP]

I think one of the reasons the libs are so scared of a draft is because they might actually have to defend the country, which they'd rather leave to the Republicans. Republicans don't have that much to worry about since it's our kids in the military in the first place.

And q/q, almost all of those "facts" aren't facts at all. Their Mooronish lies. But think of them as facts if it puts a giggle in your belly.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Republicans don't have that much to worry about since it's our kids in the military in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many Republican (or Democratic for that mater) senator's children are fighting in the war?

Can you tell me?

[ QUOTE ]
almost all of those "facts" aren't facts at all. Their Mooronish lies.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's a mooron?
It must have something to do with lunar cycles.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
How many Republican (or Democratic for that mater) senator's children are fighting in the war?

Can you tell me?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll do my best.
Sergeant Brooks Johnson.....son of SD-Democratic Senator Tim Johnson
The son of Republican Rep of California
Senator Joe Biden's son Beau is on active duty, but he doesn't have any control over where he's sent.
And I'll throw in John Ashcroft's son because Ashcroft is part of the Admin. His son is on active duty (and again has no control over where he's sent).
So, 3 congressmen have sons in the military. 3/535=0.56%
there's about 1.4 million in uniform so 1.4/280(U.S. pop in millions)=0.49%.
So you're more likely to be in military service as the son/daughter of a congressman than of average Joe Citizen.

[ QUOTE ]
What's a mooron?

[/ QUOTE ]
"Mooron". Think about it. Whom are you paraphrasing by questioning how many congressmen have children in service?
Think hard; advil for headaches. Mydol for cramps.