Easy hand?

[Michael Davis]

5-10. CO limps, I raise 66 on button, SB threebets and CO calls, I cap. Three to the flop.

Flop: 943 w/ two hearts (I have no heart)

SB bets, CO calls, I raise, SB threebets, CO calls, I call.

Turn: (9) 943

SB bets, CO calls, I raise, SB threebets, everyone folds.

-Michael

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's much benefit to that. Keep the pot smaller and see what the flop brings...



[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (9) 943

SB bets, CO calls, I raise, SB threebets, everyone folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Worth a stab, I'd probably play the flop and turn the same way (while having only called the 3-bet PF...getting to that more in a sec) though I think this turn raise is much, much, much more effective live than online since you aren't going to get too many pocket pairs to fold to your turn raise... Your turn raise would have had more credibility had you not capped preflop...meaning I think that you were probably spilling chips on the turn since you capped preflop. I would have used this guy's flop action and turn lead out after your cap to imply I'm beat and he's not going anywhere, so I'd fold and save money (the only benefit to the PF cap IMO).

[spydog]

I don't see the point of capping preflop. Maybe you thought it would give you fold equity on later streets, but when it's capped 3 ways there is enough in the pot that I think you'll have to showdown the best hand. By capping preflop you are giving them an invitation to the showdown.

The flop and turn look like chipspewing to me. At least you folded to the 3-bet on the turn.

[Michael Davis]

There are some things I really like about capping. One of them is that your opponents' postflop play becomes much more predictable. But if it's going to be that way, it might help if I actually used that while playing the hand...

-Michael

[rory]

I cannot fathom how this can even be entertained as being good poker. You know better than this.

[Michael Davis]

Presumably your big problem is the turn?

-Michael

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
There are some things I really like about capping. One of them is that your opponents' postflop play becomes much more predictable. But if it's going to be that way, it might help if I actually used that while playing the hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
There are some things I really like about capping. -Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually been giving some thought about capping more with less than premium hands (JJ+, AK, etc....) when I'm 3-bet preflop. My reasoning

1) It only costs 1 SB and they can't 5-bet me.
2) It gives me more folding equity postflop.
3) It will mask my hand when I do hold a big PP so I'm more likely to get better action with these hands.
4) As you said, it reveals your opponent's hand earlier, which means I can make better folding decisions postflop.

Any merit to this?

[Michael Davis]

It's a give-and-take. You can represent a whole lot more when you don't cap, but when you do cap with a subpremium holding and hit, you get paid.

I like it better when its headsup and you raise from late position and get threebet by the SB, as this threebet is often rather weak and putting pressure on him puts him in a lot of awkward situations.

I'm a little messed up. I think I like capping with subpremium holdings better than doing it with solid hands.

-Michael

[rory]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like an [censored] but it bums me out so bad when I see a good player dumping tons of bets like this.

The preflop cap I think is OK, if, like you said, you put the information to good use. But the time to put that to use is on the flop. Peel one off getting 14:1 with your backdoor straight draw. That's it though no more. Call the flop, fold the turn. That's why you capped preflop so you could play it that way. Cap preflop, call the flop, fold the turn and I think you have hit on a really interesting way to play hands like 66 preflop. This chip dumping stuff though really hurts my heart.

[Michael Davis]

I'm not offended at all, but I'm not so confident in my flop cap and my opponent's reaction that I'm willing to fold here that easily, especially on a non-threatening board. How would you play AK if you were the SB? You might checkraise, but maybe this guy just bets out.

There's no way a line of flop-call followed by my opponent's turn bet and the other guy's just calling would convince me that I was beat. Perhaps I'll start a thread in a couple of days playing it this way.

Given the way I played it, I have a fold on the turn. But I'm not sure how I'm supposed to know that without the flop action.

-Michael

[rory]

I know that if I was playing with someone for a while, and I capped preflop, it would be pretty obvious they were beat because it is pretty obvious what I have when I cap preflop. So when they are still coming at me, I can easily do this peel one and fold line with no qualms.

Maybe that is where the difference is-- are you capping with all kinds of hands?

The way I would play AK if I was the SB.. Hmm.. Just call preflop. Postflop, probably the same way as I would have played the 66. Call the flop, fold the turn. Might just fold the flop though.

[Michael Davis]

No, I'm not capping with all sorts of stuff, and this was the first time I capped anything at this table. But I think 66 and AK need to mix it up more on this board even with a preflop cap. Perhaps I'm not putting enough stock in preflop caps.

-Michael

[rory]

It's just.. there was a limper, so your raise isn't a steal raise. And the SB 3 bets, and the SB knows he isn't 3 betting a steal raise because you can't be steal raising because there is a limper. And the CO calls and now you cap, and your cap should mean a hell of a lot because you are capping a SB who is 3 betting in bad position against a non-steal raise. And now, even though you have just made this no-screwing around cap, the SB is firing into you on this ragged flop. He has an overpair at least, probably AA or KK. I bet he has AA and is hoping to get extra action from another overpair. But he got it from 66 instead! That is why I peel one off and fold the turn.

[rory]

And the CO is in there so the pot is protected! He can't be bluffing with AK if he bets the flop, gets called in two spots, one by the preflop capper and bets the turn again. You know? The guy would have to be an idiot to be thinking he is going to push his AK unimproved through.

[helpmeout]

Excellent post I totally agree.

When he bets out on the flop I fold, you have already shown a lot of strength by capping a 3bet from SB.

He isnt scared and he isnt folding.

Personally I dont like the preflop cap because his range of hands are going to be so much better than yours. You also have a loose caller who may hit with any overcards and call you down.

You tried to isolate with 66 you got 3bet and missed the flop, get out cheap.

[sublime]

rory-

you sound much smarter after you hang out with me for the night.

i think we are on to something.