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View Full Version : AK, top pair, passively played


PotatoStew
01-29-2005, 10:34 PM
Absolute Poker, .10/.25 NL

I have 35.95 and I'm UTG+1 w/ AsKd. UTG (has 15.75) raises to .50. I rereaise to 1.25. Everyone folds and UTG calls.

Flop (~2.85): 10 7 K ...all spades

UTG bets 1.50. I call.

Turn (~5.85): Qh

UTG bets 3.75. I call.

River (~13.35): 2c

UTG goes all in for 9.25. I call.

What should I have done differently, if anything? I can't imagine that I played that optimally.

tbach24
01-29-2005, 10:37 PM
On your re-raise pre-flop, you should've made it at least 1.5 to go. Raise the flop, and if he comes over the top, you know you're folding the 2nd best hand.

PotatoStew
01-29-2005, 10:42 PM
Why 1.50 preflop?

soah
01-29-2005, 10:45 PM
Any line that involves finding a way to fold a draw to the nuts is not optimal...

I probably would have raised on the turn, as you either have the best hand or the best draw, and you're not going to be happy with anything that happens on the river if you miss.

tbach24
01-29-2005, 10:46 PM
1.25 is only 2.5x his raise, I think that 3x his raise would be minimum. Just sort of a nitpicky thing. Little things like that can make a difference in the long run.

PotatoStew
01-29-2005, 10:52 PM
Should I have folded to the river all in?

soah
01-29-2005, 10:55 PM
I think you should have gotten the money in on earlier streets to avoid that decision. I think it's pretty likely that you're behind but for the price you're getting to call it I don't think folding is clearly correct without a read on your opponent.

tbach24
01-29-2005, 10:58 PM
Good point. I think if we push on the turn though, that we'll always get called by a set and a better flush, and fold out better hands (due to his shortstack). Therefore, a raise on the flop might be better because if raised, he will definetly have a better hand, and we'll lose less chips. We are not getting pot odds to draw against a made flush or set and not getting implied odds either.

soah
01-29-2005, 11:22 PM
How do you feel about just calling the turn if your opponent holds a jack? I bet most players in these games would call all in on the turn with any pair+draw, like KJ, QJ, JJ, JT. Some bad players may even call the all in with something like 99 with a spade.

Or suppose the other guy has something like Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ... he bets the flop with a pair and second nut flush draw, then picks up two pair on the turn. But there are eight spades left, three other jacks, two more kings, and three more aces. That's 16 outs! So even though you are behind, you are still drawing very live.

This is not a clear-cut case of a raise simply getting called by better hands and no worse hands. Whoever is behind is most likely drawing very live, and there are a ton of scare cards that could come up for both players on the river. How will you feel about your hand if an ace comes on the river? Was that one of YOUR outs, or one of your opponent's outs?? If a spade comes on the river, is your opponent with KJ going to check-fold? These are the reasons I would prefer to get the money in before the river.

edit - I may have misinterpreted your post. I thought you were disagreeing with the turn push since it will get called by better hands and not worse hands. If this was not the point you were trying to make, then please clarify what you didn't like about what I wrote. And for the record, by responding only in regards to the turn, I did not intend to imply that I agreed that preflop and flop were exactly what I would do. I'm not a fan of the way preflop was handled, and raising the flop is an option.

tbach24
01-29-2005, 11:33 PM
My thought that raising the flop may be a better line, but after reading that post, I agree with you. Your line is better. Thanks for the lengthy response.