2 weird KK hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Peter_rus

01-29-2005, 09:44 PM

Party 15/30 full. Friday afternoon (in US) game.

Hand 1

SB is loose PF and good postflop player. MP1 looks a bit LAG but not crazy postflop and also quite loose PF. No any reads on MP1.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $15. Hero posts a blind of $15.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, Hero (poster) 3-bets, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (18 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (30 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 30 BB

Hand 2.

CO is very loose PF and Laggish postflop. Button is very loose PF and very passive postflop. BB is a TAG a bit on a loose side. His PF stats looks like mine (>11PFR >22 VPIP). Though all the reads are quick as i have not enough hands with anyone of these guys.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, 5 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (14.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

I think both lines are strange and non optimal maybe fold in hand 1 on turn or flop is way better than fold in river in hand 2? How would you play these hands? Do you see any more leaks here?

Levi King

01-29-2005, 09:49 PM

Hand 1 - bet the river.

Hand 2 - you have to call the river bet.

Ian J

01-29-2005, 09:51 PM

In hand 1, bet the river.

Hand 2 looks good. Everything else looks good.

Ian J

01-29-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 - you have to call the river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think that the first person to act is betting into 3 others on this river with a hand that doesn't beat one pair of Kings?

Peter_rus

01-29-2005, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that the first person to act is betting into 3 others on this river with a hand that doesn't beat one pair of Kings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually i would call defenitely this river if i was last to act (and all folded between us). And very often when it's 3-way and im in the middle. But 2 people who show action on flop behind me (who wouldn't fold single ace here) and one player who value betting against 3 men at least good ace, 2pairs and more likely (assuming my read and flop action) 25, slowplayed 56, or Adxd.

Levi King

01-29-2005, 10:08 PM

I think he could be bluffing enough of the time to make this a profitable call long term. Is my math off? He has to be bluffing less than ~6% of the time to make this a bad call. I've seen plenty of guys with a seven or a busted flush draw bet out in this position. That's enough to get me to go to showdown for one bet.

Ian J

01-29-2005, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he could be bluffing enough of the time to make this a profitable call long term. Is my math off? He has to be bluffing less than ~6% of the time to make this a bad call. I've seen plenty of guys with a seven or a busted flush draw bet out in this position. That's enough to get me to go to showdown for one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not only about the bettor here.

Ian J

01-29-2005, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that the first person to act is betting into 3 others on this river with a hand that doesn't beat one pair of Kings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually i would call defenitely this river if i was last to act (and all folded between us). And very often when it's 3-way and im in the middle. But 2 people who show action on flop behind me (who wouldn't fold single ace here) and one player who value betting against 4 at least good ace, 2pairs and more likely (assuming my read and flop action) 25, slowplayed 56, or Adxd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely.

Peter_rus

01-29-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He has to be bluffing less than ~6%

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to be last to act to make profit from his bluffs (which i believe will be around 5-10% in these situations)but when so bad card comes in river and im out of position to raiser i also don't know if 2 others guys have something like A7, A5,A4 etc or simple Ax which they really able to call on turn. Probability of anyone of them to have such hand make my call worse as they able to lay down low pairs and other trash like this if i just call a river.