KQo - Post Flop Play Analysis

[El Maximo]

Im attempting to improve my overall postflop play. Not many opportunities to play postflop in these SnGs. Any comments on my play here.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t760)
UTG+1 (t550)
MP1 (t1689)
MP2 (t660)
MP3 (t725)
CO (t725)
Hero (t755)
SB (t1556)
BB (t580)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t15, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t105) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, SB folds, BB calls t100, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls t100, CO folds.

Turn: (t405) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, BB calls t250, MP2 calls t125.

River: (t1155) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t1155

[The Student]

hey maximo,

your pre-flop and flop line looks good to me. I think anyone who is beating you (an EP A/Q or set of 5s or 7s that didn't want to raise PF) would have check-raised you on the flop, so I think you can assume that you're ahead here. The turn 7 is a bit worrisome once the MP2 bets, but I think you either have to raise it here to test him and get rid of the BB or just call and plan to call it down. If you want to test him (putting him on an weaker queen or spade draw) I would just say that you have to make a stronger raise to make sure the BB drops. If you do decide to raise here, I think you have to push because anything less won't give you any FE. A call wouldn't be bad, but what do you do if a spade comes on the river or if the MP2 bets large again? Yeah, a push is risky, but I think it's worth it here because the only thing you're afraid of is if MP2 is holding a 7, but I think that most players here would go for the check-raise instead of the small bet. This turn bet looks like a bet designed to prevent you from making his flush draw too expensive.

On the river I think your check is okay, but not great. I think a push here is good because I think you're ahead. However, if you've been very aggressive so far, then the MP2 might be trying to go for a check-raise here, but I still think he and the BB are on busted flush draws or weaker queens.

results?
ts-

[Irieguy]

Max,

I like your preflop limp, and your flop bet is mandatory. I like the size of your flop bet too.

Once you get called on the flop and bet into on the turn, you need to adjust your line. You have position, and you have TP with essentially top kicker (nobody has A-Q).

This is a hand where you can call for value on the turn and river if the BB doesn't get active. You will often be ahead, so your calls will be +EV. When you are up against a big hand, you won't go broke because he will be afraid to lose you with a big bet. If he does make a big bet on the river, you have to reconstruct the hand and figure out where you are. You will be behind, and you will have to fold most of the time. Not always.

Your turn raise is not a good idea because you are investing so much into this pot, that folding at any later point is going to be -EV. So, if you are raising because you think you are ahead, you should push.

The key to good post flop play is learning how to play for value. This involves understanding when your folding equity is not as compelling as the strength of your hand, but your hand is not strong enough to invest your stack with. So, you have to rely on your experience and instinct to tell you where you are and bet or call accordingly. Mastering this skill will allow you to extract a fair price from lose calls or poorly conceived bluffs while still preserving some chips when you run into a big hand.

This is a really nice hand to analyze in this context. Good post.

Irieguy

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Your turn raise is not a good idea because you are investing so much into this pot, that folding at any later point is going to be -EV. So, if you are raising because you think you are ahead, you should push.

[/ QUOTE ]

It took me a year to figure this out on my own, I must shamefully admit, and it seems so elementary in retrospect. I love this board.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Your turn raise is not a good idea because you are investing so much into this pot, that folding at any later point is going to be -EV. So, if you are raising because you think you are ahead, you should push.

[/ QUOTE ]

On that board with that action, I'd be raising as much for information and blocking purposes as for thinking I'm ahead. For example, when the BB calls that raise I now check behind or fold any non-Q river 100% of the time. And even the occasional oddly played AQ/AA is not going to bet on the river once he's been raised twice.

But I get your point. That's an interesting concept and I think I've definitely been underestimating people's willingness to call off their stacks with QJ. Hmm...