KK hand for 2+2 game

[Kaz The Original]

I didn't save the hand history but I can remember it clearly. I thought it was a good time to use the "don't three bet with KK line".

Hero has $3.40 (170BB) Villian has him covered.

Hero is UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Raises to 4x BB. There is two callers when villian in late position makes it 20x BB. Hero calls.

Flop comes JJ4 rainbow. Villian bets 50BB, Hero pushes.

[PoBoy321]

Who's the villain? Granted, he's a 2+2er, but it's rare to see a reraise with AK or less. I have a feeling that you're behind and lost this to AA. Tough break.

[soah]

The reraise could potentially be made with nearly any two cards.

[Kaz The Original]

I suppose I should include my image at this time. It is at best loose aggressive, at worst maniac. Other players can comment on this.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I like it. Pot is big enough, take it down. Perfectly executed KK preflop, by the way. If you lost this hand to AA, you would have lost your stack no matter what. But hopefully everyone sees how you got a TON out of QQ (or total crap) that you never could have gotten by raising again preflop.

[mythrilfox]

I liked this tremendously until you listed your image. But even with your image, I still like it. I assume you check/raised all-in on flop as well? (That was unclear)

Thing about this line, is in a serious game with big bucks on the line, AA will often fold. The reason everyone else likes it is because you lose to AA anyway and gain value against QQ (important, yes) - but I like it because you can scare AA away, and still have showdown value against QQ.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yes, you can scare AA away if there are deep stacks and it is a smart opponent, but that is not the reason to do this with KK. You can scare AA away with any two. The reason to take this line particularly with KK is that you may be called by QQ or JJ.

[Kaz The Original]

Villian shows QQ. Yay for me.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian shows QQ. Yay for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
This thread should be stickied and people should stop re-re-raising with KK preflop. Nice job. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[pho75]

Why is putting in a third raise w/KK not good? I though the idea with A's and K's against a single opponent was to try to get all the money in before the flop.

[TheWorstPlayer]

This hand shows exactly why (and that is why I think it should be stickied.) Take a minute and think about how the different lines would play out and I think you can come up with the reason. It is a good idea to work it out yourself if possible because this is a common situation and the result from each line should be pretty clear. So think about it a bit and then post again either with the answer or with the part of the equation that you are having trouble with. Not trying to be a jerk, but really I think this situation is hard to understand unless you understand the reason behind the play and that is best understood when you come up with it yourself.

[pho75]

[ QUOTE ]
Not trying to be a jerk

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not being a jerk at all. You were right. I didn't think about it very hard. I just wanted to suck on the big 2+2 knowledge teet.

After actually THINKING about it. It seems that by putting in a big 3rd raise, you would be driving out the same hands that you would WANT a call from (like AK, QQ, and JJ).

The only hand that would call for sure would be AA. If the flop came with no ace you'd probably loose you stack anyway, but make more money when your opponent held AK, QQ, or JJ.

Is that it?

[TheWorstPlayer]

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO!

(That was for you, BF.)

[pho75]

Thanks. I think I watch too much poker on TV.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Everyone watches poker on TV because it is entertaining, but it is VERY important to realise that things like WPT and WSOP you are watching people play at the highest levels, in a tournament, usually towards the end of the tournament. That is very VERY different from a small stakes cash game.