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View Full Version : AA hand...anyone call this bet?


Dominic
01-28-2005, 01:43 AM
Early stages of a 10 handed UB SNG - nobody out yet:


SMARTIJONES is at seat 0 with 840.
RoyBatty (HERO) is at seat 1 with 990.

SMARTIJONES posts the small blind of 10.
RoyBatty posts the big blind of 20.

RoyBatty: As Ah

Pre-flop:


SMARTIJONES raises to 100.
RoyBatty re-raises to 340.
SMARTIJONES calls.

Flop (board: Tc Qh Jh):

SMARTIJONES goes all-in for 500.
RoyBatty folds.
SMARTIJONES is returned 500
(uncalled).

SMARTIJONES wins 720.



Okay...the only hands I put her on that she could call my preflop reraise was AK or a pocket pair that made her set on the flop. But it REALLY smelled like AK to me. Later, I thought...if she did flop the straight, why bet out? But there was a two flush on the board, and this early I understand shutting out possible draws.

I contemplated at least a full minute before folding. Nothing made sense to me except for AK.

I still had 640 in chips when I called, so I was in ok position. In fact, I did come back and place 3rd. But it was a struggle, as I was shortstacked the whole way.

So...does anyone call this bet? If so, please explain your reasoning and think about it for a second before you look at the results below - my opponent flashed her cards when I folded:

<font color="white">KQos </font>

ChrisV
01-28-2005, 02:21 AM
My guess was AQ. I was close.

There's absolutely no way AK just fires out like that. Most players won't bet out like that with a flopped set either. Even if, having thought about it, they think the bet out with a set is a better play (which is pretty dubious), they won't think about it, their hand will just click check automatically.

I rated it a pretty high certainty it was AQ. Obviously calling the raise with AQ is terrible but people do it 24/7. And with KQ, apparently.

Al Mirpuri
01-28-2005, 11:45 AM
If you were to call it would be because you are not drawing dead as you have runner runner outs to the nut flush and may three kings to the nut straight and because you thought SMARTIJONES would push with a pair and flush draw or pair and straight draw or even top pair top kicker. If the second half does not apply then you have to fold.

A_PLUS
01-28-2005, 12:15 PM
alright, if this has been said Im sorry, I replied after reading only the 1st message:

I dont know if I am comfortable with this read online. I think we tend to put too much faith in our 'reads' online. I would have had to log a few full tournaments with the oponent before I could confidently put them on AK.

From my SNG play, here are some things I have noticed.

1.) players call way too many reraises. It isn't out of the ordinary to see a player limp from middle position, then call a 4x BB raise from the player on the button.

2.) players are overly concerned with being "short stacked" before they should be. You will often wee someone fall to 600TCs with the blinds at 15-30 and start to panic and play reckless.

3.) Players play very oddly from the blinds. They will often fail to give the BB credit for a hand when they should, or overvalue their own.

I think all three may be at play here. (not saying you made the wrong play, I am just playing devil's adv.)

So, here is a possible thought process of smarty Jones.

hmmm, AQ wow, I sure hope I get some action!!

reraise? He probably has a small pocket pair, lets see this flop..I call!!

ALright!!! Jackpot TPTK...All IN!!!!!!!!!!

I think the range of hands you can put them on are
AA-99, AKo-AJo, KQs, maybe KJs.

All in all, I think you made a good play. You gave yourself a chance to win later, and capitalized. I probably call there, but that is more of a preference than a poker certainty.

My guess for there hand: AQ or KJ

NickPoker
01-28-2005, 12:18 PM
I think you made the propoer play. There are two many hands you that you need runner runner to beat. You may have the best of it, but you can find a better spot, $650 is plenty to regroup at this early stage in the tourney. The way this hand played out the other player could easily have a set or AK, he led out preflop out of SB, and then called your re-raise. There are 5 reasonable hand this person could have 10/10, J/J, Q/Q, A/Q, or A/K (unless he is horrible, which is always possible), I doubt he has KK he would came back over the top pre-flop. AQ is the only hand he could reasonably have that you are beating. Easy fold at the point in the tourney, good lay down.

revots33
01-28-2005, 01:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1.) players call way too many reraises. It isn't out of the ordinary to see a player limp from middle position, then call a 4x BB raise from the player on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. I don't think he stated what the buyin was for this tournament - but at the low levels especially, it's hard to put a player on a hand just because they called a raise. In $5-10 SNG's many players will call almost any raise once they have entered the pot. "In for a penny, in for a pound" is their motto. If I am on the button with AA, and raise 5xBB after 5 limpers, I am no longer surprised when 3 or 4 of the limpers call. I've seen them turn over hands like K-10, Q-J, 55, and even 10-8s. Sometimes I just go all-in with AA now if there's already been some limpers, usually get at least one caller (and sometimes 2).

Many players at the lower limits just cannot drop out of a pot once they've already put so much as 1 chip in.

I'd have folded here too, by the way - you've still just got 1 pair and for Smarti 2 pair or a set is a definite possibility in addition to the straight. Wouldn't surprise me, if it was a low buyin, for him to turn over QJ or J10 for 2 pair. Players call for half their stack on these types of hands at 5-10 levels.

ChrisV
01-28-2005, 01:24 PM
I guarantee you AK is not a possibility here. It's possible he has a set but if so you win about 20% of the time and you're only calling for just under 30% of the pot so your loss won't be huge (160 chips or so). Meanwhile you have a MASSIVE overlay against AQ, or the unlikely KQ. This was a bad fold.

ChrisV
01-28-2005, 01:26 PM
Against two pair you win 40% of the time and easily have odds to call the bet.

NickPoker
01-28-2005, 03:04 PM
Let's say he has 2 pair, you are correct the pot odds are there, and that is sound logic for a cash game. I disagree that you should apply the same logic to a tournemant because you can not buy in again, therefore you need to wait for a bigger edge. I think this a no brainer fold since there quite a few hand that the player would be an overwheling dog to. Later in the tourney when you have to take more risks because of blinds moving up I may call in this same situation, but not here.