Hellmuth

[FishBurger]

Does Phil Hellmuth even play poker anymore? In his lates CardPlayer article he had to call T.J. Cloutier to remind him of a hand he could write about. I think the hand was from a tourney in 1995.

Is Phil just skating on past glory now?

[rerazor]

He's pure hype. I watched the 2002 wsop the other night, the where Hellmuth "lost" the bet over Varoknyis performance and had to get his head shaved. Well Varkonyi wanted to let him off the hook, but Hellmuth *insisted* he follow through with it, because it would be more hype in his direction. His whole image is an act, and frankly from what I've seen of his poker that's overrated too.

[Asufiji2004]

Damn the guy doesn't win a major tournament for a whole year and he's hype?...overrated? Yall are a bunch of haters. 9 bracelets... He may not have the best personality, but the man can play cards.

[BUCKS COUNTY, PA]

if you keep up with the 10K buy ins you'd notice that Hellmuth doesn't participate in as many of them as most known pros.

[slickpoppa]

I think phil is a good player, but not as good as he or his bracelet worshippers make him out to be. But he is smart enough to realize that acting like an ass and drawing attention to himself is probably more +EV than playing real poker. I think the cardplayer article was just laziness.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
He's pure hype. I watched the 2002 wsop the other night, the where Hellmuth "lost" the bet over Varoknyis performance and had to get his head shaved. Well Varkonyi wanted to let him off the hook, but Hellmuth *insisted* he follow through with it, because it would be more hype in his direction. His whole image is an act, and frankly from what I've seen of his poker that's overrated too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've probably seen barely any of "his poker." I don't think you can call his performance in 1993 overrated.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn the guy doesn't win a major tournament for a whole year and he's hype?...overrated? Yall are a bunch of haters. 9 bracelets... He may not have the best personality, but the man can play cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, you have to be kidding. The guy is bar none the best tournament Hold 'Em player ever....I'm not talking about Limit or NL individually I'm talking hold 'em.

Now, before all you Negreanu, Hansen and Brunson chest pumpers get on my case, I'm talking ever.

Negreanu is the best NL touranment player right now. Brunson is the best NL player tournament and cash games combined and Hansen had a nice run and will certainly stay on the scene, but I think his style has been exposed and the top players have figured out a way to combat his style.

[Vi_o]

[ QUOTE ]
He's pure hype. I watched the 2002 wsop the other night, the where Hellmuth "lost" the bet over Varoknyis performance and had to get his head shaved. Well Varkonyi wanted to let him off the hook, but Hellmuth *insisted* he follow through with it, because it would be more hype in his direction. His whole image is an act, and frankly from what I've seen of his poker that's overrated too.

[/ QUOTE ]


You're a moron.

Raymer is hype, Hellmuth he's amazing.

[TStoneMBD]

IMHO, Hellmuth is by far the most overrated player in poker, by a large margin. Moneymaker and Varkonyi are runnerups. Raymer is overrated by this forum to a severe degree, but not by the poker industry.

[Don Olney]

I think Phil has the skill and talent to play with the best of the best and play great poker -- BUT --- with all the NIMRODS playing now -- he may suffer more now then ever --- Phil plays skill against skill --- he has trouble with SKILL against 450 NIMRODS out to bust him just because of who he is ----

In todays no-limit tourneys. Danial may be a the top ---I do know one thing from seeing him in tourneys. and live --- he maybe one of the top 3 or 4 post flop players going in the game today -----

[Aceshigh7]

[ QUOTE ]
if you keep up with the 10K buy ins you'd notice that Hellmuth doesn't participate in as many of them as most known pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully expect Paul Phillips to show up in this thread. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FishBurger]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Phil has the skill and talent to play with the best of the best and play great poker -- BUT --- with all the NIMRODS playing now -- he may suffer more now then ever --- Phil plays skill against skill --- he has trouble with SKILL against 450 NIMRODS out to bust him just because of who he is ----


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you trying to say that any nimrod could beat Phil Hellmuth?

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
if you keep up with the 10K buy ins you'd notice that Hellmuth doesn't participate in as many of them as most known pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where in Bucks do you live? I live in Richboro, I'm in D.C. for college, however.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Hellmuth is by far the most overrated player in poker, by a large margin. Moneymaker and Varkonyi are runnerups.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who overrates Moneymaker? It seems to me that everyone thinks he's a fat fish. I think he's decent though.

[boedeker]

how many wpt final tables does hellmuth have - 3,4? 9 bracelets? come on get with the program.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Hellmuth is by far the most overrated player in poker, by a large margin. Moneymaker and Varkonyi are runnerups. Raymer is overrated by this forum to a severe degree, but not by the poker industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing Hellmuth to Varkonyi is like comparing a Lexux to a Hyundai, come on now. BTW, when you can flash me 9 WSOP bracelets all won in Hold 'em games, then you can argue that Hellmuth is over-rated.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Hellmuth is by far the most overrated player in poker, by a large margin. Moneymaker and Varkonyi are runnerups. Raymer is overrated by this forum to a severe degree, but not by the poker industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing Hellmuth to Varkonyi is like comparing a Lexux to a Hyundai, come on now. BTW, when you can flash me 9 WSOP bracelets all won in Hold 'em games, then you can argue that Hellmuth is over-rated.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's saying too much. Try when ANYONE can flash 9 bracelets all in holdem. Also, they are all in the last 16 years, whereas i belive 5 or 6 of doyle's were pre-1980, and MUCH easier to get comparatively.

[TheCroShow]

try to remember that most of us only see hellmuth on EDITED television. most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest. i would take brunson's word over any 2+2 poster. i suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion

hellmuth fanboi #1

[Nick-Zack]

I don't even think that Varkonyi wanted to let him off the hook as much as he just wanted the day to not be about Phil.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Hellmuth is by far the most overrated player in poker, by a large margin. Moneymaker and Varkonyi are runnerups.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who overrates Moneymaker? It seems to me that everyone thinks he's a fat fish. I think he's decent though.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's certainly no Varkonyi.

28-Sep-04 Aruba $ 6,000 No Limit Hold'em Final Day
2004 Ultimatebet.com Poker Classic, Palm Beach 18th $ 13,000

03-Sep-04 Ireland € 5,710 Episode 5
The Gaming Club World Poker Championship (Pot Limit Hold'em), Dublin 10th

03-Aug-04 United States $ 300 Pot Limit Hold'em
The Fourth Annual Jack Binion Mid-America Poker Classic, Tunica 3rd $ 10,239

19-May-04 United States $ 5,000 Pot Limit Omaha
35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 10th $ 21,000

03-Mar-04 United States $ 5,000 WPT No Limit Hold'em Championship Final Day
2004 - Bay 101 Shooting Star, San Jose 2nd $ 200,000

19-May-03 United States $ 10,000 World Championship Event
34th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2003, Las Vegas 1st $ 2,500,000

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest.
hellmuth fanboi #1

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[Asufiji2004]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest.
hellmuth fanboi #1

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So #2 all time WSOP earnings (only cause 5 mill went to winner last year), tied for 1st all time WSOP bracelets and second all time WSOP cashes in the most prestigious month of poker for any pro. So wait he's dead money?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest.
hellmuth fanboi #1

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many "pros" have you spoken with? One and let me guess it was Paul Phillips?

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go head and enlighten us on which pros you have talked to and what they have said. Otherwise don't go poppin off about talkin to "all" the pros.

[Greenthumb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest.
hellmuth fanboi #1

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]
wow. i mean,wow. now i know why i never come to this forum.

[goldseraph]

TJ Cloutier says in Championship NL and PL several times that he highly regards Phil's play and that he is among the best players in the world. I don't understand why people would think he is not a great player... wackos IMO

[mojorisin24]

[ QUOTE ]
Who overrates Moneymaker? It seems to me that everyone thinks he's a fat fish. I think he's decent though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Moneymaker always gets dissed on these forums, but I think that he is actually a pretty decent player. Sure, he got lucky, yada yada yada, but he's better than most of the posters on here who rip him incessantly.

[cwsiggy]

I have heard he is rather bad in cash games. His tourney results speaks for itself.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
most pros argue he is among the greatest tournament players of all time, if not the greatest.
hellmuth fanboi #1

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only think of one Pro player who would agree with the above statement, that of course would be Helmuth. Every pro I've ever spoken to thinks Helmuth is dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to speak to some smarter pros then.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard he is rather bad in cash games. His tourney results speaks for itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

They do? And what exactly do they say?

[cwsiggy]

Who would be smarter than Howard Lederer???? He was talking about Hellmuth's cash game.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Who would be smarter than Howard Lederer????

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt Howard Lederer called Hellmuth Tourney game "Dead money"

Even Paul Phillips never said that. PP said he wouldn;t be surprised if PH's game was now -EV.

Cah game, yeah, lots say he's not very good.

[cwsiggy]

cash game, cash game, cash game is what Lederer was talking about!!!! maybe you read it before I was able to edit it - sorry

[bottomset]

till someone can match his tournament holdem achievements calling him overrated is nuts

wait so Joe Montana's overrated cuz he only won 3 Superbowl MVPS, and only threw 11tds in them ...

[cwsiggy]

Hasn't he made 5-6 "final" tables on WPT meaning final 9 not TV final 6????

[Brad F.]

[ QUOTE ]
19-May-04 United States $ 5,000 Pot Limit Omaha
35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 10th $ 21,000


[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder how many events Varkoni entered. That PLO final table was definitely the most 'star-studded' one of the ESPN coverage, but I bet they were liking their chops at the thought of getting Varkoni at a final table.

But Hellmuth is definitely no Varkoni.

YA-MON!

Brad