So sick. . .(little to no content)

[tdomeski]

Me and the villian got history. .he's semi decent. .overthinker. .and borderline crazy.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($65.45)
Hero ($200)
CO ($197)
Button ($199)
SB ($199.35)
BB ($200)
UTG ($68)
UTG+1 ($100.45)
MP1 ($516.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $8, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: ($19) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($31) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, MP1 calls $6.

River: ($55) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $174</font>, MP1 calls $144.

Final Pot: $403

[djoyce003]

don't tell me he turned over king 10 of clubs. You massively underbet the turn. Your raise should have been 30.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: ($31) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, MP1 calls $6.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'd really love to hear your explanation for that

[amoeba]

yea yea, heard it all before, minraises are bad.

whats the problem if he got him to call?

[Benal]

KT /images/graemlins/club.gif eh? maybe T8 /images/graemlins/club.gif ?

[tdomeski]

[ QUOTE ]
Your raise should have been 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most cases, yes. Against this opponent, no.

I do have a read. .so please stop this systematic auto raise 3X his bet bull. . . . You are allowed to think sometimes when you play.

[LuvDemNutz]

Isn't this a bad call preflop?

[tdomeski]

So cookie cutter. . .

[djoyce003]

Mine was more like betting the pot. And I am thinking here, he obviously still likes his hand, even with a flush out there...maybe he has a smaller flush than you or a set, and is willing to call a much bigger turn bet here. If that's the case, the fourth club hitting on the river is an action killer that didn't pair the board so anyone else is freezing up here. That was my point, I don't feel that there was any real need say my method was thoughtless, although I should have put all these in my previous post, so touche.

[amoeba]

he isn't calling to flop the flush or flop an ace.

He is calling for the chance to move villain off a missed flop.

[Richie Rich]

(or theoretically shouldn't) simply call an opponent's raise on an unpaired board. I'd put villain on a set of Qs.

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
Str8 Flushes usually won't (or theoretically shouldn't) simply call an opponent's raise on an unpaired board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe hero raised all in.

[amoeba]

This I do somewhat agree with as if the board either shows 4th flush or pairs, you are either not goin to get much action or won't value bet the river.

Although you have to weigh the advantages of reraising a lot and getting a smaller flush to call vs minraising and getting smaller flush to push.Hero I believe is trying to rep the straight with the minraise.

Also, there is the additional consideration of how villain acts in either situation if he is on say 2 pair or straight.

[Richie Rich]

So he did...my apologies.

[tdomeski]

I'm 100% sure he did not have a flush on the turn, thus he does not have a straight flush on the river.

[poboy]

What is the point of posting the hand if you're just going to criticize everyone who thinks you misplayed the hand? So far with the exception of Amoeba nobody agrees with how you played this, could there be some merit to what everyone is saying?

[kurto]

"I'm 100% sure he did not have a flush on the turn, thus he does not have a straight flush on the river." I'm a little confused. If he does not have the straight flush, then you won the hand. I thought by your header, that this was a bad beat.... What am I missing?

[amoeba]

I don't agree wholly.

I am just saying the reasons why OP might have chosen to play the way he did.

I am not sure I like the flop.

Why call his underbet there?

[amoeba]

as to the question of villains hand.

I am certain it is KK with K of clubs.

[djoyce003]

if that's the case, i can't believe he called the all-in. What else is our hero pushing with other than the Ace of clubs. Yet another reason to get the money in on the turn I think, as any sensible person probably folds this.

[amoeba]

villain might have known hero to be tricky.

Too much in pot. I don't know.

when you say get it all in on the turn, do you mean villain or hero? I assume you mean Hero.

[djoyce003]

Yeah I mean hero...the pot is already a good size on the turn, and the villain is still betting at the pot despite the third club. I think a bigger reraise is in order here. If the villain has a big hand, which it appears he does, he isn't folding to a bigger reraise and he might come over the top, at which point he's basically tied to the pot and you can push with the nuts, and if he doesn't, you set up a value bet on a non-threatening river. In this case, our hero made a small raise, and the pot stayed relatively small. Against most opponents, even with big hands, they aren't going to call much on the river without a big club. If you have a chance to get more money in before an action killing card falls, you are better off I think in the long-run. Also, if you pump the pot up more on the turn, it sets up a river value bet where you'll get a crying call and extract a little more value if a 4th club hits.

[Kaz The Original]

Sick is good.

[TrailofTears]

You kids and your crazy colloquialisms. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Jay36489]

[ QUOTE ]
Sick is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

ohhhh, that had me confused too. It's like American Chopper. "THAT PAINT JOB IS SICK! ISN'T IT SICK, VIN?"
"THAT IS SO SICK!"

Do you ever get the feeling that people's responses are somewhat influenced by the fact that everyone expects hand posted to be losing hands? It's natural to post losing hands because your biggests leaks are usually in those hands. Perhaps from now on I will try and post two hands every time. One losing and one winning and say it right up front.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your raise should have been 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most cases, yes. Against this opponent, no.

I do have a read. .so please stop this systematic auto raise 3X his bet bull. . . . You are allowed to think sometimes when you play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Min raise is stupid against any opponent if for no other reason than that it makes it less likely they will call a big raise on the river since it tips them off to your hand. Either raise normally, which they will believe or won't believe, or don't raise at all. Min-raising doesn't build the pot, gives off information, and is a play that you normally won't use so it has no meta-game value. It sucks here just as much as it normally does.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
as to the question of villains hand.

I am certain it is KK with K of clubs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I cant see this being something else. So why post the hand? You played it great - you called preflop when obviously you had the right implied odds, and you got him all in when you had the best hand. By waiting to the river to make a large bet you intended to represent a bluff, no? Well done in IMO.

[tdomeski]

OK obviously I won the hand as by me re-opening the betting on the turn and THIS opponent not raising it up it was 100% clear he didn't have the flush.

I read most of the replies and for the guy who said get all the money in on the turn I have to say I disagree. .There is absolutely no way against this opponent the money is getting in on the turn unless he has a flush (and trust me when I re open the betting he will put it in with a flush).

Furthermore I'm sick of people tearing down the minimum raise. .There is a time and place for it (although I use it maybe once a week), I DO USE IT! I BLUFF WITH IT TOO! So that defining hand blah blah blah odds blah blah blah. .He doesn't have a flush, he doesn't have a set, he doesn't have two pair. . .

This post included in the title (Little to no content). .b/c I just found it amusing. .Both our plays were unothorodox. .I mean geez he called me with 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . We have history. .I just thought it was an amusing hand. .

Flame away. .

Ohh and preflop. . Position against this player was worth $8 IMO.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Fine, this player is crap. So is the min-raise. Fine, you use it. You shouldn't. This hand was entertaining, though, and it did have a disclaimer, so there is no problem at all with your post. But the min-raise is still crap.

[tdomeski]

n/t

[TheWorstPlayer]

n/t

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
OK obviously I won the hand as by me re-opening the betting on the turn and THIS opponent not raising it up it was 100% clear he didn't have the flush.

I read most of the replies and for the guy who said get all the money in on the turn I have to say I disagree. .There is absolutely no way against this opponent the money is getting in on the turn unless he has a flush (and trust me when I re open the betting he will put it in with a flush).

Furthermore I'm sick of people tearing down the minimum raise. .There is a time and place for it (although I use it maybe once a week), I DO USE IT! I BLUFF WITH IT TOO! So that defining hand blah blah blah odds blah blah blah. .He doesn't have a flush, he doesn't have a set, he doesn't have two pair. . .

This post included in the title (Little to no content). .b/c I just found it amusing. .Both our plays were unothorodox. .I mean geez he called me with 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . We have history. .I just thought it was an amusing hand. .

Flame away. .

Ohh and preflop. . Position against this player was worth $8 IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fine with how you played this hand, too many people here are too cookie cutter NL players.

If I were you I'd raise it on the flop to buy a free card, otherwise I like the hand.

To all of you critics of the turn min-raise, if he raises it any more than that villain can easily toss away their hand.

I'd expect more aggression if someone had a set to protect their hand so you shouldn't be too worried about the board pairing. Also, I don't think MP1 would raise pre-flop with KTs or T8s in that position.

[amoeba]

I don't see how villain was thinking player if he showed down 4 4.

Just crazy and really really bad.

actually I'm just pissed my prediction of KK is wrong.

[wbrumfiel]

What the? He put in $100+ on a flush with the 4? Where can I find this player?

[tdomeski]

He thinks too much. . .