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jkstay

01-27-2005, 01:17 PM

These are two hands from two $10+$1 SnG's I played last night. In both tourneys, the tables were very loose, and I had been playing very tight.

I'm wondering if I misplayed them. Specifically, for hand #1, should I have just limped in w/AQo preflop UTG, and should I have bet more on the flop? For hand #2, BB was very loose and did not like to fold (preflop or post flop). Should I have just limped in preflop instead of risking so much of my stack?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t585)
SB (t1880)
BB (t1160)
Hero (t1355)
UTG+1 (t3175)
MP1 (t1675)
MP2 (t1095)
CO (t2575)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to t200, UTG+1 calls t200, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t200, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t675) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t300, UTG+1 calls t300, MP2 calls t300.

Turn: (t1575) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t855 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t855, MP2 calls t595 (All-In).

River: (t3880) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3880

----------------------------------------------

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t1082)
Hero (t1350)
BB (t6998)
UTG (t3160)
MP (t910)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t150, MP folds, Button folds, Hero raises to t600, BB calls t450, UTG folds.

Flop: (t1350) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t750 (All-In), BB calls t750.

Turn: (t2850) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2850) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2850

captZEEbo1

01-27-2005, 04:05 PM

hand 1 good to me...my guess is you lost to some b.s. flush draw.
hand 2, you raised TOO much preflop. Either raise less or just go allin preflop. Other than that, allin on flop is fine.

gvibes

01-27-2005, 04:31 PM

There's an AQo UTG+! hand I want to post as well. I don't know what to do preflop. I limped in mine, but nothing really felt right.

In hand 1, I may consider pushing so I can try to price out any flush draws. Neither call had odds to hit their flush draw either.

In hand 2, with a limper, I probably push. I push a lot, though.

nokona13

01-27-2005, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 good to me...my guess is you lost to some b.s. flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. Something Harrington mentions in his book, which I've found very useful, is that he will call a flush draw down to 3:1 or maybe even lower pot odds after the flop because of the implied odds (or if the bettor is all in and so it's only ~5:3 against hitting the flush on two cards). That means when you have the current nuts, but there's a flush draw out there, especially early in the tournament when it's very possible both your callers have suited cards, you need to bet bigger after the flop. I've found in on line play you usually need to go about 3/4 of the pot before decent players stop calling you.

Even if you wanted to be conservative, because the second caller was on a short stack, he had correct pot odds to call an all in after the turn, so your only way to drive him out would be bigger bet post flop.

The second hand you have to consider your read on the UTG. Is he very good, such that a limp from UTG could well be an invitation for a raise? Or is he not so good and hoping he'll get lucky and his big stack disuades anyone but the BB from calling? Unless you had a read on the player as wily, I'd play the hand the same way you did. The big raise protects you from lucky two pair or Ax calling and getting you on the flop, and post flop, it's likely UTG doesn't have aces or KK or AK, so at this poitn in the tournament, I like the push.

Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)

01-27-2005, 04:37 PM

Hand 1, I push all in on the flop.
Hand 2, I probably push preflop, with a slight chance of folding preflop depending on my read of UTG. Most likely a push though.

jkstay

01-27-2005, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the responses so far. I have a few more questions in response to the comments...

Hand #1) I'm not sure that going all in on the flop is the best long-term EV play for this situation. I don't tend to get involved in too many hands, so I really need to capitalize on the good hands that I do get. I think that if I go by Sklansky's Theory of Poker (that any time my opponent makes a wrong call, I benefit in the long run), as long as I give my opponent the wrong odds to call, I'll be ok, regardless of whether they call or not. Is this thinking totally off base?

Hand #2) UTG liked to limp in and see a lot of cheap flops, but he didn't fight back too much when it was raised behind him. However, I knew that BB was extremely loose and would probably call any raise I put in preflop with almost any two cards (any PP, any A, any K, any Q, any two suited). Based on the very low probability that he would fold to any raise I put in (no fold equity), should I have just limped in (or maybe min-raised to get UTG out)? How should I play hands like this vs people who won't fold?

Thanks again for everyone's input so far.

Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)

01-27-2005, 05:26 PM

In hand 1 your are giving pretty damn good odds with your bet...a little better than 3:1, and if UTG calls, MP2 is getting a little better than 4:1. The pot is huge right now, and most draws will call a push anyway, sov get the chips in there while you're a favorite to win the hand. Too many turn cards can come that will slow you down.

jkstay

01-27-2005, 05:48 PM

I agree completely that my flop bet was way too small. But what if I'd bet 650? That would have given UTG 2:1 odds. If he called, MP2 would be getting about 3:1. That actually brings up another question..when you figure out what odds you want to offer, do you only take into accout the person to act next, or do you also think about what people after him would be getting if he called?

Also, you mentioned the pot being huge, so I should want to take it down now. This point may be obvious to all of you, but it really sent off a light bulb in my head. I'm primarily a limit ring player, and I've read SSH, so I've got it drilled into my head to fight for large pots in those games. It didn't occur to me to use that same strategy for NL tourneys.

Thanks again...