Basic hand reading against fish

[soah]

bunch of limpers then a min-raise = "I'm playing limit poker and never do anything but min-raise or min-bet" or "I have AA". Shouldn't take too long to figure out which is the case

bunch of limpers, one of the blinds raises, and the CO or button reraises = "I know you have AK because that's what people always have when they raise, and I would love to race you with my pocket pair since I'm a huge 52% favorite to have my hand hold up"

no preflop raise, and someone check-calls the flop = "I'm drawing"

min-bet, fold to a raise = "I was drawing dead and tried to bluff"

min-bet, call a raise = "I'm drawing"

min-bet, reraise = "I have a monster"

[amoeba]

#2 is not always true.

but pretty accurate on other ones.

[StoneRose]

[ QUOTE ]
bunch of limpers then a min-raise = "I'm playing limit poker and never do anything but min-raise or min-bet" or "I have AA". Shouldn't take too long to figure out which is the case


[/ QUOTE ]

I see this play much more often with As-Xs or suited connectors. The late position preflop raiser wants to both build a pot and get checked to on the flop. I'm not used to seeing this play with A-A. Is it a Party Poker thing?

[kurto]

I had a different thoughts on one of your reads. And there may be different levels of fish...

"then a min-raise" I have found most consistantly, this means low pocket pair. I don't know why, but its worked for me consistantly.

"and the CO or button reraises" - You put him on AK...(You assuming a table full of fish?) It also means pocket 10s-pocket Aces.

"no preflop raise, and someone check-calls the flop = "I'm drawing" OR, I have middle or bottom pair. or absolutely nothing.

"min-bet, fold to a raise = "I was drawing dead and tried to bluff" or bottom or middle pair. Or top pair, horrendous kicker. Or, I have top pair, but am worried that the preflop raiser has an overpair.

"min-bet, call a raise = "I'm drawing" Agreed. On a rare occasion, they will be slowplaying. (but then, maybe they aren't a fish?)

"min-bet, reraise = "I have a monster" - Unless its a maniac-fish. Otherwise, I agree.

[soah]

It's basically just an uberfish thing. Sometimes it's really obvious. Like people limp in, sb completes, then BB min-raises. Other times someone raises, several people call, and then some dude min-reraises. It's basically just saying "I want to raise, but I don't want ANYONE to fold!" and the most likely hand for a fish to hold in that case is AA. The best part about these types of fish is that in many cases they will push on the flop with their overpair even if they are overbetting the pot by a huge margin. Playing a SNG the other day, a limper and a min-raise and I start drooling with 22 right behind him. Flop T62 and he bets 1400 into a pot of like 100 and I double up. (This particular guy actually only had JJ.)

If people are minraising with Axs and other trash then they fall into the category of "I don't know how to do anything but min-raise and min-bet" and it's important to identify those people quickly so that you don't misinterpret their actions.

[amoeba]

yes good observation soah.

although there are some that do both. minraise with AA/KK and minraise with stuff like KJ, KTs, AXs.

for those, when I have a hand like AK, QQ, JJ, TT, I reraise preflop.

if they only do the minraise with AA/KK, I just call for set value or hit my draw with SC.

[soah]

"then a min-raise" I have found most consistantly, this means low pocket pair. I don't know why, but its worked for me consistantly.

Against LAGier fish I agree. Against raw beginners it is AA.

"and the CO or button reraises" - You put him on AK...(You assuming a table full of fish?) It also means pocket 10s-pocket Aces.

Huh? I said he has a pocket pair.

"no preflop raise, and someone check-calls the flop = "I'm drawing" OR, I have middle or bottom pair. or absolutely nothing.

Bottom or middle pair is a five-out draw. Overcards are a six-out draw.

"min-bet, fold to a raise = "I was drawing dead and tried to bluff" or bottom or middle pair. Or top pair, horrendous kicker. Or, I have top pair, but am worried that the preflop raiser has an overpair.

We really don't know what they have. I just included it so that I wouldn't give the impression that min-bets are always draws or monsters.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
"min-bet, fold to a raise = "I was drawing dead and tried to bluff" or bottom or middle pair. Or top pair, horrendous kicker. Or, I have top pair, but am worried that the preflop raiser has an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a joke? I am pretty certain that I have NEVER seen someone drop top pair on Party NL25 6M. I have definitely seen people call down with Kc2c on KsQsJsTs boards, though.

[soah]

I'm pretty certain you've never seen the hole cards of people that have folded at partypoker.

[TheWorstPlayer]

You've seen people fold at Party poker?

[amoeba]

party isn't as fishy as we all tout it to be.

[kurto]

"Is this a joke? I am pretty certain that I have NEVER seen someone drop top pair on Party NL25 6M." Absolutely not. (I play on Pokerstars) If I raise (let's say I have pocket kings.) Someone calls with 10J. Hey hit their ten (as TP). They do the minraise thing to say, "I have a piece of it... but I'm not sure about Kurto who raised before the hand. So I'll bet a quarter and see what happens."

3 or 4 people call the quarter until someone bets the pot... and they fold.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty certain you've never seen the hole cards of people that have folded at partypoker.

[/ QUOTE ]

GOD DAMNIT I CAN READ THROUGH MY COMPUTER SCREEN INTO THEIR SOULS.

I AM THAT GOOD

I KNOW WHAT THEY FOLD

i like this all caps approach

[zaxx19]

The rationale behind min raising with a PP is it doubles the flop pot for a flopped set.....


In other words really lets you take downs some heavier pots with a set....not saying i agree with the move but ill do it ever so often.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Which is why if someone min-raises in late position, I like to re-raise. It is by far the most annoying move in all of NLHE and if there is someone who does it frequently, then I make sure to limp-re-raise often.