88 vs. LAG -- isolation play

[private joker]

This is a situation I'm trying to improve in my game. I think it could be a leak. Villain is a LAG, but not so maniacal that he raises with sh[/i]it like 62o -- just a lot of hands and plays them aggressively. I figured if I could isolate him by 3-betting PF, my mid-PP would hold up often enough to be +EV.

This board sucked hard, so I dumped on the turn. What's the optimal line here? If he'd merely called the PF 3-bet, I would call down. But his cap made me think there's no hand I can beat on this board.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

[gaming_mouse]

You are surely beat after the turn, so that fold is good.

The only other possible choice I see here is raising the flop. But I'm not crazy about that either. I think this is fine.

gm

[Nate tha' Great]

It's my routine play to 3-bet with 88 in this spot against an MP raise in the Party 15/30 game. I suspect that the player that you're describing has raising standards that would be considered pretty typical in the Party 15/30, so I endorse the preflop play.

The postflop play seems standard. The more interesting question is what you would have done if the turn had been the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif instead of the Ace.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
The more interesting question is what you would have done if the turn had been the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif instead of the Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call down and bet if checked to. I don't think a raise is worth much because I'll get 3-bet if I'm behind, and he will fold a worse hand. I'd rather let him bet into me on the turn and river if I'm ahead.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The more interesting question is what you would have done if the turn had been the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif instead of the Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call down and bet if checked to. I don't think a raise is worth much because I'll get 3-bet if I'm behind, and he will fold a worse hand. I'd rather let him bet into me on the turn and river if I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the calldown is obviously correct for any card &lt;=j. Maybe not interesting at all.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call down and bet if checked to. I don't think a raise is worth much because I'll get 3-bet if I'm behind, and he will fold a worse hand. I'd rather let him bet into me on the turn and river if I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

On this particular board, you'd want him to fold some potential worse hands such as AK and AQ on a turn blank. But he won't. And even if he didn't have a gutshot, by the time you raised, he'd easily have the odds to call with overcards against your holding, so you wouldn't mind him folding to a turn raise then either.

Still, I think the calldown plan is good, especially since it sounds like you can count on your opponent to bet again on the river unimproved. And you could easily in fact be behind. And it would cost you as much to find out that you're probably behind and fold as it would to reach a showdown. (Even there, though, since you in fact have a gutshot on the turn, to go with your potential set outs, I don't think you should fold to a 3-bet. Which is another reason not to raise the turn.)

Actually, given your gutshot, I think the turn decision in the actual hand is close. But I don't think you can count on being ahead very often at all (and not often enough to call a river bet unimproved, which makes the chance you're currently ahead pretty worthless, since your opponent is almost certain to bet into you on the river), and you should also discount your outs some, since Villain could have a set or KQ. So I think the fold is fine.

[Lmn55d]

so you'd fold if a king or queen came too?

[me454555]

I don't think he automatically folds any hand that beats you. I say he calls down w/overcards