How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?

[imported_Robert Andersson]

How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?

What are the important factors that makes a differance between win and lose?

humble

/Robert Andersson

[JinX11]

1) Read good material (books, forums, essays, etc)
2) Hand selection
3) Table selection
4) Reading opponents (playing styles)
5) Raising appropriately (for protection vs. for value)

Off the top of my head, those would be my top 5, I think.

[Rudbaeck]

Knowing when you have an edge and pushing it. All your plays should have a positive expected value.

Read, play, think, read, play, discuss, play, read. Rinse and repeat.

[bernie]

There's a reason there's a gun on the cover of HEPFAP.

b

[Niediam]

It is a combination of intelligence and discipline.

[PokerFink]

The biggest key to winning in hold'em, as well as any form of poker, is very simple. It is to play your very best at all times. This seems obvious, but good players loose far more money due to NOT playing their best (due to lack of focus, tilt, whatever) than anything else.

After that, you have to read about the game, discuss the game, think about the game, and practice, practice, practice.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?


[/ QUOTE ]
You outplay your opponents. We all try to play poker well, but it is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.

In fact, winning does not mean you are playing well. The top backgammon players in the world in the 1960s played horribly by modern standards. They won consistently because other players were worse.

[Niediam]

That's probably not actually true. You really can't forget how 'smart' the average person really is. It can be scary if you think about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif They may play their best poker but be far worse than the average 2+2er who is hardly even paying attention to the game...

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
That's probably not actually true. You really can't forget how 'smart' the average person really is. It can be scary if you think about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif They may play their best poker but be far worse than the average 2+2er who is hardly even paying attention to the game...

[/ QUOTE ]

You make a good point. Perhaps I didn't say my thoughts clearly enough.

There are certain players that will never win. Either because they don't know what they are doing, or don't care to learn, they will always lose. I'm not talking about these players.

Many players who have the capability to beat a game won't because they aren't playing their best. A player who can beat a game for a modest 1BB/100 playing their best will probably be a losing player in the long run because they won't play their best all the time, and they will lose too much playing below peak level to win back playing at 100%.

Maybe I'm wrong. But how often do you do something stupid that costs you a bet, or several bets? Imagine if you eliminated these dumb, obvious mistakes, and played your very best poker 100% of the time. Your winrate would improve a lot.

[Shoe]

You need to get out of the kiddie pool and start making moves.

[va_chier]

original

[zaxx19]

I think the proper strategies for winning at limit holdem is :

1) table selection
2) discipline and patience
3) Consistent play
4) continual analysis
5) Playing an immense volume of hands where you EV is +
(goes back to #1)

A profitable LHE player probably would-should be 8 tabling 50-$1.00 tables on party and playing a game based on WLLHE by the book plus a little more agression with position.....

Poker tracker and multitabling have truly made LHE more a grind and a statistical science and less a game of reading players and nuanced betting patterns.

In fact even though I know this is the most profitable way to play I still refuse to do this just bc 1) I do not find it to be enjoyable in the least. & 2) I have other prospects in my future that will hopefully pay far more hourly performing far less tedious tasks like reviewing contracts, drafting briefs.....

NLHE is much more complicated and a whole different skill set is necessary to be profitable at that game.

[AndyS]

I really don't think i'll mention anything substantially different from all the posts already by here's my 2 cents:

1) Read strategy books and start with Theory of Poker first (Sklansky)
2) Play as much as possible (online, at the casino, in home games) You will notice different dynamics to the game in each of these three situations. For example; a bad beat online may not affect you as much b/c the hands happen so quickly that with good play you can win it back faster.
3) Move up limits as you build a bankroll (getting out of 1-2, 2-4 and 3-6 are crucial to bettering your game.) I am not saying you can't be successful at low limit hold-em but that the majority of players are doing it for pure recreation and don't know much about strategy and will consequently frustrate the best of us with bad but lucky play. To become better we need to play against better opposition. It is similar in sports when you see a great team play down to the level of an inferior team.

4) AND MOST IMPORTANT...poker has a lot of theory you need to learn but that will only get you so far. Also playing hands gives you experience but it is worthless unless you develop the characteristics necessary to show profit over the long run. You must develop patience, critical thinking, self-reflection and be able to analyze why what happens, happens...win or lose. Knowing all the theory is great but if you don't have the fortitude, patience and character to objectively gamble you will never win. Don't worry though these are all attributes you can work on. Personally I am not there mentally yet in every aspect necessary. I still have lots to learn about strategy and plenty to learn about patience. For me I try and develop rules for myself and stick to them until I think they are obsolete and i can adhere to new and more advanced ones. (ie; something as simple as in a No-Limit cash game not going all-in on a draw . Or in a limit game not three betting in the big blind if there are already players in with pocket pairs lower than 99.)

Anyways I know that was long and tedious but it's my two cents for what it's worth...

andy

[bholdr]

i like barry tanenbaum's article on the 1bb/hr idea, which focuses on the skill set of a winning player and the order in which most winning players develop those skills:
link (http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/tanenbaum04.htm)

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?

What are the important factors that makes a differance between win and lose?


[/ QUOTE ]

All the answers given before are good, but it boils down to putting money in the pot when you have the best of it, and not when you have the worst of it. The trick is to know what situation you're in.

Read "Gambling Theory and other Topics" by Mason Malmuth for an explaination on non self-weighting strategies.

[einbert]

You seek out opponents who don't understand the game as well as you do, and you make less mistakes than they do. If you do this consistently you will be a long-term winner.

[jimymat]

LoL , IVE ALWAYS WONDERED THAT. i FIGURED DAVE WANTED ME TO KILL MYSELF.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

Hi again and thanks for all answers!

From which level of the game can you start on calculate the value on betting because there is i chance that your opponent fold?

Is that the fold equity?

again thanks alot i really appreciate all your answers.

/Robert

[Rudbaeck]

Whenever you're heads up or in a threehanded pot where the opponents aren't going to the river with 8 high.

I'd rather value bet a table full of calling stations than make my money on fold equity. People not folding is a good thing when you can adjust to it.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi again and thanks for all answers!

From which level of the game can you start on calculate the value on betting because there is i chance that your opponent fold?

Is that the fold equity?

again thanks alot i really appreciate all your answers.

/Robert

[/ QUOTE ]

Players will fold at play money tables, so the answer is:

At all limits.

The more important question is:

What is the relationship between their calling% and folding% in this hand, and what is the likelihood of your hand ending up the best?

[Dave H.]

1. Discipline NOT to play -EV hands
2. Aggression where it's warranted, especially post flop
3. NEVER NEVER TILT...it can destroy your bankroll and your psyche!

[faith]

This might not be what you're looking for, but it the same with any game. Learn and understand the game. When you understand it you can evaluate your skill compared to others... then (Bottom line:) Play against weaker opponents.

In regards to the "important factors" question... If you're looking for what skills you need in Hold'em as well as other forms of poker (different skills are needed for different games- poker and otherwise for that matter)... Mason wrote a good article in Poker Essays 2 where he ranks the importance of different poker skills in different games.

[SomethingClever]

There are two simple concepts that will make you almost an instant winner at the micro limits.

1) Hand selection
2) Pot odds

If you ever want to do better than minimum wage, however, there is a whole other world of knowledge.

Start with those two, though. Available in any 2+2 book or on this site.

[bweiser8311962]

Luck is a factor and I challenge anyone who says it isn't.

I'll cite a recent "bad beat" I took, one that I'm still not over more than a week later.

I get 6/7o in the big blind and there are two callers.

Flop is K/5/4 rainbow, giving me an O/E straight draw. Turn is an 8. First person goes all-in for $5...Second re-raises all-in. Of course, I put all money in with the best hand. There are no flush draws. Person 1 turns over K/4 2 pair ... Person 2 turns over K/5 2 pair ...
River is a K.

I played it well. I got all my mone in with the best hand. And I lost.
That's poker. If you can't accept losses, you will never be a winning player.

I was an 88 percent favorite after the turn on that hand.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

so the tip is not being afraid of losing?

I've heard people saying if you play not to lose, you don't play your best game so it make sence.

/Robert

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?


[/ QUOTE ]

I did not trouble myself to read any responses. The answer to your question is, however, very simple and plain:

Don't Play. Ever. You are now a sure winner and in more ways than you could every realize at this juncture.

Le Misanthrope

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't Play. Ever. You are now a sure winner and in more ways than you could every realize at this juncture.


[/ QUOTE ]

So basically you're saying he shouldn't even get into the kiddie pool?

[ACW]

[ QUOTE ]
Luck is a factor and I challenge anyone who says it isn't.


[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The key to luck not affecting whether or not you win in the long run is to exercise effective money management.

If every time your opponent has only one out on the river you put in your entire bankroll, you won't win in the long run no matter what you do on the other hands. Putting 1% of your bankroll on the line every time you're a 60-40 favourite will make you win in the long run.

Now tell me luck is a factor.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
You seek out opponents who don't understand the game as well as you do, and you make less mistakes than they do. If you do this consistently you will be a long-term winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a very good answer. Txs alot!

/Robert

[cpk]

Come back to me when you've flopped a set of kings and someone with offsuit garbage catches running quads. Twice. In the same week. Me = 99.9% favorite.

Bad beats like this only seem to happen to me when I'm playing at the highest limit my bankroll can support.

[vegasvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
Now tell me luck is a factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

If luck wasn't involved, I'd win every hand.





Sorry, my favorite Hellmuth quote. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[imported_Robert Andersson]

Thank you for all your posts! I really have enjoyed reading all answers.

One very important thing is to analyse "things".

--------------------------------------------

My question now is when is the table:

- Loose/tight in %?
- Passive/Agressive in BBs?

I apply these values today

under 40% flop then tight.
under 10BB pot then passive.

---------------------------------------

About the players.

How to analyse the players?

Which notes is good to make?

How many hands do you need before giving a pin to player?

-----------------------------------------

I would be glad for any comments.


Carpe Diem!

/Robert

[Hulk Hogan]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?



[/ QUOTE ]

constant, mindless, relentless bluffing.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now tell me luck is a factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

If luck wasn't involved, I'd win every hand.





Sorry, my favorite Hellmuth quote. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what he said.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How do you win in Texas Holdem in the long run?



[/ QUOTE ]

constant, mindless, relentless bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go all in

[Grisgra]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the importance of pattern-mapping yet. You poor noobs . . .

[imported_Robert Andersson]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
I can't believe nobody has mentioned the importance of pattern-mapping yet. You poor noobs . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry?

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe nobody has mentioned the importance of pattern-mapping yet. You poor noobs . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Pattern what???? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Lawrence

[jimymat]

Follow the winner out to the parking lot and jack him for his roll.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
Follow the winner out to the parking lot and jack him for his roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

It must be comments like this that makes this thread the most read of all at "Poker Theory" /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BugsBunny]

In my opinion the most important key to winning is discipline.

Discipline to study and learn the game. And to keep studying and improving.
Discipline to not get involved in games that are over your head in terms of either skill or bankroll.
Discipline to not let winning/losing effect how you play.
Discipline to stay off tilt.
Discipline to be aggressive when needed.
Discipline to be passive when needed.
Discipline to not play hands that you should be folding.
Discipline to be patient when needed.

Some of these inter-relate with each other. But it all comes down to discipline. If you don't have discipline I don't care how good you are in any other aspect(s) of the game, you'll end up losing in the long run.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

Ive been reading all posts again and find all your thought very valuable. Ive collected some of them here to do a little sum of all goods. Is some thing very important here forgotten to make it comprehensive?

My most humble thanks to all posters!

/Robert
-------------------------------------------------------

- Read good material (books, forums, essays, etc)
- Hand selection
- Table selection
- Reading opponents (playing styles)
- Raising appropriately (for protection vs. for value)

It is to play your very best at all times. This seems obvious, but good players loose far more money due to NOT playing their best (due to lack of focus, tilt, whatever) than anything else.

- table selection
- discipline and patience
- Consistent play
- continual analysis
- Playing an immense volume of hands where you EV is +

All the answers given before are good, but it boils down to putting money in the pot when you have the best of it, and not when you have the worst of it. The trick is to know what situation you're in.

- Discipline NOT to play -EV hands
- Aggression where it's warranted, especially post flop
- NEVER NEVER TILT...it can destroy your bankroll and your psyche!

This might not be what you're looking for, but it the same with any game. Learn and understand the game. When you understand it you can evaluate your skill compared to others... then (Bottom line:) Play against weaker opponents.


You seek out opponents who don't understand the game as well as you do, and you make less mistakes than they do. If you do this consistently you will be a long-term winner.

Discipline to study and learn the game. And to keep studying and improving.
Discipline to not get involved in games that are over your head in terms of either skill or bankroll.
Discipline to not let winning/losing effect how you play.
Discipline to stay off tilt.
Discipline to be aggressive when needed.
Discipline to be passive when needed.
Discipline to not play hands that you should be folding.
Discipline to be patient when needed.