how do you usually bust?

[schwza]

i don't have any data, but my sense is that most of the time when i bust out it's because i try to steal with a marginal hand and get caught.

i'm guessing that's the case for most people, right?

[codewarrior]

My records show if it is early on, it's getting it in with the best of it, but the majority is on/near the bubble in a coin flip.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't have any data, but my sense is that most of the time when i bust out it's because i try to steal with a marginal hand and get caught.

i'm guessing that's the case for most people, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much, yeah.

eastbay

[Unparagoned]

Yeah, I tend to bust out in exactly that way. A2s, JT on the button, four or five handed, 55 in EP, etc. Basically, I start pushing LOTS of hands in position when the game is short-handed (assuming my stack size is fairly small) and typically that'll put me out 5-6th or get me into 1st or 2nd. Perhaps it is my relatively small sample size, but I find myself not running into alot of 3rd or 4th place finishes relative to 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th.

[El Maximo]

My stats are very similiar. Lots of 5ths, 1st and 2nds. Me like that. How about those incredible suckouts too. The Heroes do suckout sometimes. Pushing crap into BB who holds big pockets. They go apeshit when you suck out on them.

[rachelwxm]

Slow playing aces. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Unparagoned]

My favoite is the guys who get super pissed when my T9s beats their AK, like they somehow should win every time from that position... But in terms of getting berated by other players (and you'll have to bear in mind that I play 10+1 mostly), the best is to be in the BB for 200 chips, have a 445 chip stack move in on you and he goes nuts when you call with 92o. Those are my favorite hands to win for pure entertainment value /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I tend to bust out in exactly that way. A2s, JT on the button, four or five handed, 55 in EP, etc. Basically, I start pushing LOTS of hands in position when the game is short-handed (assuming my stack size is fairly small) and typically that'll put me out 5-6th or get me into 1st or 2nd. Perhaps it is my relatively small sample size, but I find myself not running into alot of 3rd or 4th place finishes relative to 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep... Lot's of fifths, and an uncomfortable number of 4th's for me as well.

[Mr_J]

Thanks for posting this guys, I was worried I was stealing to aggressively.

[Mr_J]

I've also noticed that when I'm caught stealing, it's usually by a hand that had no 'right' to call, and quite often is even a worse hand ($33s)!!!

Also funny how often it's the river card that busts you (not saying PP is rigged, just that it's messing with your mind).

[Gigabet]

Limp reraising all in 94o utg, man, I hate it when I get caught doing that.

[microbet]

I think the most common way for me to bust out is dwindling stack gets caught in the first few steal attempts.

My most common finishing places are 1st, 2nd and 6th.

[Bigwig]

Since the majority of the time I bust out in the money or on the bubble, I think it's likely hands I'll push like A8, or 66, that get called by AT or AJ. Stuff like that.

What I'm saying is--I don't know.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't have any data, but my sense is that most of the time when i bust out it's because i try to steal with a marginal hand and get caught.

i'm guessing that's the case for most people, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. My most common finish is 1st (around 15%), followed by 4th (around 13%) -- those are from memory so not entirely sure. It's annoying, simply because it makes SNGs take so long on average, but I have little doubt that "tight early and crazy late" is the optimal way to play these tournaments.

On a related note, I have noticed that many $10+1 players are exhibiting more willingness to call all-ins with marginal hands on the bubble. Consequently, my ROI is falling lately. I wondered if they were taking notes on me -- but PT says I have never played more than 5 tournaments against any one opponent, and those are usually in the same session (often at the same time). Notes are pretty much useless at the $10+1 level, assuming your memory is good enough to last for one game. So I believe the quality of the players may be improving, at least to the extent that they are more willing to make correct calls on the bubble.

[PokerCat69]

I don't play many SnG's but when I bust out it is mainly during the bubble when I try to steal and get called by a better hand, or lose on those coin flip hands.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Limp reraising all in 94o utg, man, I hate it when I get caught doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]

gig,

What were the blinds, and were you're doing this short stacked?

Also, why do this bluff? and do you pick your target based on stack size, or your read on him?

[AA suited]

In bust out in this order:

1) short stacked trying to steal blinds to survive and got caught

2) losing coin flips: i go all-in w/ak and he calls with 55. or i go all in w/55 and he calls w/ak.

3)he sucked out on me: i flop 2 pair, and he gets trips

4)i had a good hand, but he had a better one (jj vs kk)

5) lapse of judgement and/or i was on tilt. ie: bigstack was the blind, and i was mid-stack. why the hell did i push w/k2s on the bubble?

[El Maximo]

[ QUOTE ]

5) lapse of judgement and/or i was on tilt. ie: bigstack was the blind, and i was mid-stack. why the hell did i push w/k2s on the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im fond of this move also. I think this is the only one we have control over. Im been working on elimating these brain cramps.

[Frogistador]

[ QUOTE ]
On a related note, I have noticed that many $10+1 players are exhibiting more willingness to call all-ins with marginal hands on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's my impression from reading this forum and my own limited experience that $10+1 players are much more willing to call all-ins not only on the bubble but ITM as well (and at any level for that matter). And correct strategy would be to be a little less aggressive with blind stealing than some posters who may not be playing $10+1 recommend. But not much less.

[ QUOTE ]
I wondered if they were taking notes on me
...
So I believe the quality of the players may be improving, at least to the extent that they are more willing to make correct calls on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. They are definitely not taking notes. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that the quality of play is improving. I think inexperienced players are more likely to be loose callers and it can be successful against a player who steals blinds a little too aggressively.

Anyone else agrees with this?

[El Maximo]

I think the key to the lower level sngs is understanding the mentality of the villians. Its not that they are so loose, its more that they overvalue certain holdings. I dont think they say to themselves " QTo is crap but what the hell I feel lucky." I think they say " Damn, finally I got a good hand. Im going to jam this QTo down his throat!" Once you realize which hands they overvalue you can make adjustments to your blind stealing standards.

[Frogistador]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not that they are so loose, its more that they overvalue certain holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they overvalue certain holdings and call with them, they are loose. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[El Maximo]

True. What Im trying to say is you need to get an understanding of the hands they value. Just to categorize them as loose will lead you to make poor decisions on hand ranges you should push with.

[spentrent]

Been caught stealin', once, when I was five.....

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
I was worried I was stealing to aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this possible late at a party SNG???

I tend to bust out when I push with a mediocre hand and the SB/BB wake up with something legit. Other than that I make a bad decision and push with a hand that tends to be dominated right on the bubble just because I've been successfully stealing blinds. I think that is one thing of the myriad that I need to learn, is that sometimes its ok to skip a steal attempt, especially with easily dominated hands that will be called. i.e. I'd rather get called on a steal with T8 instead of A3 if I'm only going to be called by Ax, Kx, etc. I want live outs.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5) lapse of judgement and/or i was on tilt. ie: bigstack was the blind, and i was mid-stack. why the hell did i push w/k2s on the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im fond of this move also. I think this is the only one we have control over. Im been working on elimating these brain cramps.

[/ QUOTE ]

damn it..did it again. right after i wrote this msg about lapse in judgement, i played.

i was middle stack on the bubble. short stack had 3 blinds left. big stack was the blind, and i had aq suited. i pushed, he called w/small pocket pair. i didnt improve and got eliminated.

should have just raised the standard 2.5BB /images/graemlins/frown.gif

gota find a way to fix this leak about lapse in judgements. obviously writing about it doesnt help /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5) lapse of judgement and/or i was on tilt. ie: bigstack was the blind, and i was mid-stack. why the hell did i push w/k2s on the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im fond of this move also. I think this is the only one we have control over. Im been working on elimating these brain cramps.

[/ QUOTE ]

damn it..did it again. right after i wrote this msg about lapse in judgement, i played.

i was middle stack on the bubble. short stack had 3 blinds left. big stack was the blind, and i had aq suited. i pushed, he called w/small pocket pair. i didnt improve and got eliminated.

should have just raised the standard 2.5BB /images/graemlins/frown.gif

gota find a way to fix this leak about lapse in judgements. obviously writing about it doesnt help /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing you made the right play, unless perhaps your stack was quite large also.

[UncleDuke]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't have any data, but my sense is that most of the time when i bust out it's because i try to steal with a marginal hand and get caught.

i'm guessing that's the case for most people, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

If I go out early, it's usually when I get all-in with a big hand like aces or kings and get outdrawn. If I go out near the bubble, it's about evenly divided between losing coin flips and caught stealing. If it's in the end game, it's usually something like a coin flip or guessing wrong about a bluff.