Negreanu Cracks Outta Turn

[Rushmore]

Apparently, he doesn't think much of internet players, and wants everyone to know about it.

From the Tunica report on his website:

WPT Tunica Day One Update
By Daniel Negreanu Monday, January 24th, 2005


Today went pretty smoothly for me as I was never in any real jeopardy. I got an absolute gift in the first limit that went like this:

A young player in late position makes it 150 to go, the button calls and I call from the small blind with Q-4 of hearts and the big blind also calls. The flop comes down 7-4-4 with two spades. I check, the big blind checks and the original raiser bets 200. The button calls and I make it 500. The big blind folds and the first raiser says, “I’m all in.”

“Huh? Are you serious?” I thought to myself, “Do you really have pocket sevens?” I thought for a few seconds and finally asked him a question, “Do you play on the internet?”
“Yes, unfortunately I do.” he replied. I shot all my chips to the center after hearing that and doubled up against his 9-9.

So if you're in a tournament, and you get into a hand with Mr. Negreanu, you might do well to KEEP mentioning internet poker (i.e. "This is easy compared to the internet," "I never knew that chips were really made out of clay," and "Who records all of the hand histories--the dealers?").

You might just get a loose call when you've got the goods.

[srw5n]

that's actually pretty funny.

[whiskeytown]

I don't see what's so terrible about this....

most of those guys on the internet DO suck....and WILL make moves like that, and if you know it, more power to you...

this coming from a guy who got his AA cracked with [censored] 77 a while back on the 9th hand of the tourney after getting all the money in PREFLOP -

RB

[sfwusc]

That guy sucked. Daniel beat him b/c he sucked.

1st) Dont talk. Dont answer questions. Your voice and eyes can give a lot away.

2nd) No one pushes all in with the nuts on the flop unless their stack size is small compared to the pot. I think I have done it once in the past month ealier in the tourny.

I had the nut straight on a draw happy board with one person allin preflop. It was heads up and a pot bet would have been like 60% of my remaining stack.

3rd) Bet a 1/3 of pot with overpair(pot 600). Then reraise all in (with a 20% pot raise of 200 in the pot 1000).

77, 65s, K4s, A4s wouldnt have played it like that. A overpair or flush draw from a bad player might.

SWUSC

[GambleAB]

That's funny, because from my experience playing at the Circuit event, and obviously looking like a young "internet" kid, half of the pros feel the way that Daniel feels, and the other half feel the opposite way, that any time a young kid makes a move, he/she has the goods because this much money means sooooo much to us (who doesn't the money mean alot to?). Case in point: I pushed allin when I turned the nut straight Day 1 against an Asian gentleman (sorry, I STILL don't remember his name) who I knew wasn't respecting my raises. He called off all his chips with middle pair, no draw expecting me to be on a 4 flush I'd assume.
But, my experience with TJ, Nick, and Erick (especially at the final table) showed me that they wouldn't play back at me unless they had a hand (until, of course, I showed down a less-than-premium hand, which I tried to avoid at all costs). I used that to my advantage to bully TJ out of chips on Days 1 and 2, and to steal my way to a decent stack at the final table.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]


A young player in late position makes it 150 to go, the button calls and I call from the small blind with Q-4 of hearts and the big blind also calls. The flop comes down 7-4-4 with two spades. I check, the big blind checks and the original raiser bets 200. The button calls and I make it 500. The big blind folds and the first raiser says, “I’m all in.”

“Huh? Are you serious?” I thought to myself, “Do you really have pocket sevens?” I thought for a few seconds and finally asked him a question, “Do you play on the internet?”
“Yes, unfortunately I do.” he replied. I shot all my chips to the center after hearing that and doubled up against his 9-9.



[/ QUOTE ]

Why does Daniel think about 77 here? Hardly anyone pushes with the nuts here. Someone with an overpair has 2 outs, and someone with a 4 has 1 out. Someone with a flush draw, you want them to hit.

I would have been much more concerned that someone open raised in late position with A4, and was trying to protect against a flush draw.

But that thought doesn't even enter Daniel's mind, apparently.

Yes, there are only 4 A4 hands possible, but there were only 3 77 hands possible, and he considered those.

I am not saying the call was wrong. I am just wondering about the thought process.

[cwsiggy]

Reminds me of the time when Daniel was asking a player where he was from (might have been 2004 WSOP early coverage) Daniel said he thought he was from Norway or something and the guy said Sweden. Daniel said "that's even worse" and folded.

[GreywolfNYC]

He also takes a player's occupation into account if he finds out what it is. For example, he has said "be very careful with lawyers."
I think a great part of Negreanu's brilliance is his ability to read people, as it is with most people who can play at the limits he does and with the likes of Brunson, et al. Sounds like he did it very well in this hand.

[TimTimSalabim]

There are a lot of players who will pass on A4, even in steal position. But virtually no one is going to fold 77. So that makes 77 the more likely hand that you have to worry about. Also, somebody who is nervous playing in a big tournament might well push in with the nuts or near nuts. Daniel had to eliminate that possibility, which he did by talking to the guy. I have the feeling it was the guy's tone and general demeanor that caused Daniel to call, rather than the fact that he plays on the internet. But it makes a good story /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

[Tiltaniac]

Amusing. Maybe it was not the answer that solidified his read but the way he answered it.

[jojobinks]

probably a combo, yes. let it also be said, however, that this is a guy that doesn't mind busting out early. i'm sure he was pretty confident about his read, but it helps when you don't mind busting and winning next week.

i, on the other hand...

[sfwusc]

Which is why you dont say anything.

SWUSC

[MMMMMM]

How could the dealers record all the hand histories in addition to their other duties? That's what the Eye In The Sky is for.

[betgo]

First of all, don't answer questions from someone contemplating calling your allin.

As far an Internet players go, if someone like Negreanu sees a player he doesn't know, it means he doesn't generally play in $5K+ tournaments or really big cash games. He wonders if the player is 1) a pro or semipro who generally plays at a somewhat lower level 2) an Internet qualifier 3) some rich tourist type. If it is 1), Negreanu can expect a reasonably strong opponent. With 2) or 3), the player may be pretty weak. The fact that he is an Internet player makes it likely he is in category 2).

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
How could the dealers record all the hand histories in addition to their other duties? That's what the Eye In The Sky is for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the tournament director recorded all the hand histories, and then afterwards, they would send them to you.

I mean, how else can we input them into Pokertracker?

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see what's so terrible about this....


[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I don't think there's anything remotely terrible about this. I just thought it was sort of funny that he shared this insight.

What I find hysterical is that the internet qualifier didn't realize he was either picking up what was in the pot, or he was on the rail.

I mean, is Negreanu calling with A7 or 88 here?

Duh.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
That's funny, because from my experience playing at the Circuit event, and obviously looking like a young "internet" kid, half of the pros feel the way that Daniel feels, and the other half feel the opposite way, that any time a young kid makes a move, he/she has the goods because this much money means sooooo much to us (who doesn't the money mean alot to?). Case in point: I pushed allin when I turned the nut straight Day 1 against an Asian gentleman (sorry, I STILL don't remember his name) who I knew wasn't respecting my raises. He called off all his chips with middle pair, no draw expecting me to be on a 4 flush I'd assume.
But, my experience with TJ, Nick, and Erick (especially at the final table) showed me that they wouldn't play back at me unless they had a hand (until, of course, I showed down a less-than-premium hand, which I tried to avoid at all costs). I used that to my advantage to bully TJ out of chips on Days 1 and 2, and to steal my way to a decent stack at the final table.

[/ QUOTE ]

All reads like this work both ways. It takes an aware player to realize what his table image is, and then to exploit it in the way you describe.

Had the guy held 77, I would have been heartily impressed by his all-in in that particular situation.

As it happened, though, we must be somewhat less than impressed.

[IgorSmiles]

Not answering his question can be just as big a tell as answering it.

[Nottom]

I disagree with number 2.

[TStoneMBD]

i was actually thinking the same thing you were rushmore, after i read negreanu's post that is.

[SuitedSixes]

With that in mind, when I play against Daniel I am going to tell him that I am a Swedish Internet Lawyer. He won't be able to get a good read.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, is Negreanu calling with A7 or 88 here?

Duh.

[/ QUOTE ]


MAYBE. But probably not. However, along those same lines, he might get him to fold random 10's... It was definitely "bold aggressive" Mike Sexton'esque poker -- would you automatically put Daniel on random 4 calling a raise out of the SB?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
MAYBE. But probably not. However, along those same lines, he might get him to fold random 10's... It was definitely "bold aggressive" Mike Sexton'esque poker -- would you automatically put Daniel on random 4 calling a raise out of the SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't automatically put anyone on anything.

That said, in the first level, no solid player is going to push his entire stack in here with 99. It's a terrible play. Yes, there's at least a little, uh, nobility in doing so if you're attempting to push him off 10's or J's, but that's not enough to justify it, all things considered.

And of all players, Negreanu is one who you HAVE to give credit for holding all sorts of cards. He'll call a raise from the blind with some pretty questionable holdings, as confident as he is in his post-flop play.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
i was actually thinking the same thing you were rushmore, after i read negreanu's post that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should warn a person before saying terrifying things to him. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[kirisim]

Daniel probably didn't call ONLY because the guy was an internet player. It's likely he picked up something else when the guy opened his mouth.

In live NLHE games, it is amazing how much you can pick up by getting a guy to talk. It can switch your decision from fold to call or vice versa.

I always follow Doyle's advice - when you play a big pot, don't get into a conversation with the guy.

[OrangeKing]

Negreanu has a new blog entry up, where he again expresses frustration with the blind structure. On the other hand, he's in the final 27 again. Geez, this guy cashes in these tournaments like it's his job...oh.

[Absolution]

Note to self: The first time you play at a table with Negreanu talk about all your internet success and then push in with the nuts against him the first chance you get. :P In all seriousness, wouldn't it be to the internet qualifiers advantage (even if said player was skilled, but just unknown) to exploit assumptions such as this from pro players? Maybe that's how a lot of the pros go out.

Actually though, I have to agree that his answer probably had little to nothing to do with why Daniel called. It was probably more about the way the guy acted. Maybe he was acting overconfident, but then fumbled his words or something. Even more likely, Daniel had little idea about what the guy had if he truly was a terrible player and just played his cards (but it makes a good story).

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Negreanu has a new blog entry up, where he again expresses frustration with the blind structure. On the other hand, he's in the final 27 again. Geez, this guy cashes in these tournaments like it's his job...oh.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right, though. The bigger events need to have more play than this one does.

In fact, I'd go along with some sort of standardization on this front, as some poster somewhere recently posited as necessary.

[TonyS0pran0]

I'd be more worried about him rubbing my leg under the table then telling him I play on the internet.......