Having to give it all up for good (long message), advice appreciated

[Mizzles]

Hello

Here is my story and my dilemma, I am looking for comments and advice. This is a very serious issue for me. I am 34 yo male, first began playing hold ‘em when I was 19 in 1989 – at that time 12 sometimes 15 hrs a day. I stopped completely for several years when I went to medical school internationally. The reason I went internationally is because I began playing so much in my first few years of college, began missing all my classes, and basically blew my chances of getting into med school here. Once I left the country, I thought the hold ‘em phase of my life was over.

I eventually returned to the USA after completing med school, and during my residency was married in 2000 to my girlfriend of 11 years. Six months into my marriage, on my vacation month, I discovered online poker. I played sparingly, but it to my surprise it drove my wife crazy. And I mean CRAZY. If I even brought up the subject it would bring instant tears to her eyes. She even threw a vase and smashed it against a wall (she only did anything like that once and this was it) one night when I was playing. She couldn’t breathe one night 4,000 miles across the country when I told her over the phone I had played for an hour. It didn’t matter that I was winning, to her it was “gambling” and she just couldn’t stand it. My side of the argument was that it wasn’t “gambling,” it was a sure thing, a hobby/passtime, a challenge, which had a predictable monitary reward. She obviously didn’t see it in that way.

But for her and to keep my marriage sane, after one month of hell, I let it go; I basically had no choice, she couldn’t take it, and I couldn’t see my 12 year love so upset, even though I didn’t really understand it. So I more or less put hold ‘em aside, but never gave it up completely – playing very rarely when she wasn’t around, etc. (about 5 hours per MONTH). Although I never let her know I still rarely played, I think she kind of had a feeling. And she never quite healed from the early days, that 1 month had been like torture to her. 3 yrs later our marriage ended when she had an affair, and she recited these early happenings as part of the reason.

After the devestating breakup in March 2004, now that I was single, I began playing again, more then ever before and way beyond just playing – I expanded to data mining, add ons, poker tracker, the whole nine yards. I currently average 2.3 BB/hr, which per hour is almost equal to what I make working in the emergency room. And I love it. I love the strategy and the challenge. I love trying to attain my goal of 3.0 bb/hr. I love the data. I love AK suited.

But I will get married again at some point, I’m 34 and don’t want to wait too much longer. So what then? I’m faced with the reality of probably having to give it all up. I really don’t see any way around it at this point. I may have to reach the decision – the decision to finally put it all away for good – and revert to a “normal” life, doctor and wife. I can’t and will not let this get in the way of my marriage again. I don’t see this NOT being a problem in any marriage, at least not in my culture. Even if I wanted to continue playing, and say be up front with the woman, how do you tell someone you’re an ER doc but also play professional poker? To most women (and others) that sounds ridiculous.

One big problem is that for me it’s either all or none. I’m either in or I’m out. I’m either full on or rather not play at all. So I play now full heartedly and I love it, thinking, deciding, and knowing that this is all very likely going to end one day soon.

Any comments are appreciated.

[KillingAristotle]

That's a pretty depressing story dude. Sorry to hear about it. Anyways, I know there are several married men on the bored who play regularly and their wives don't seem to mind too much. I wouldn't assume that women are as closed-minded to poker as your ex-wife was, so don't give up hope. What do you mean when you say poker will never be acceptable to a potential spouse in your "culture"?

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
One big problem is that for me it’s either all or none. I’m either in or I’m out. I’m either full on or rather not play at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't take this wrong, but this sounds like a symptom of compulsion, and I think you need help. One form of alcholism is to not drink all the time, but to get drunk whenever a person drinks, this is sort of what you described. If you can't separate poker from the rest of your life, you have a problem, and should seek help.

lf

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if I wanted to continue playing, and say be up front with the woman, how do you tell someone you’re an ER doc but also play professional poker? To most women (and others) that sounds ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tell my wife this at least three times a week and it eventually will sink in. Of course I always use the word "wannabe" before professional. Pretty similar lives we have in some respects as we have the exact same job and passion for poker as a second source of income. I have some things to share but it is 4 am and I just got off shift and don't have the energy to fully respond. I will try to come back for this one after some rest though.

[Mizzles]

Wow! Another ER doc amongst us! It's 7am and I'm just getting off shift, too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stonecoldnuts]

With how nationally popular poker has become, i think you'll be hard pressed to find some one that would object to you playing poker in your spare time. Just as long as it doesn't interfere with the rest of your life.
p.s.- poker absolutely is gambling no matter how good you are or how bad your opponents are.

[largos]

Hi!
I think that you should make it clear to your girlfriend/future wife before entering a relationship that poker is your hobby/job.
There are many women who don`t have a problem with this as long as you don`t surprice them.
If she can`t respect your job as long as you don`t put your
family in danger, you should start looking for something new.

GL

[TStoneMBD]

sorry to hear about the breakup, i hope you are able to find love again shortly. dont listen to lilfeller, just because you want to either be dedicated to poker or quit entirely does not mean you need help at all. that was a ridiculous assumption on his part and rather premature. as long as you are not skipping work to play poker, unless you have an interest in quitting to play poker full time, you are fine as long as you are a winning player. i fully understand your need to either be involved with poker entirely or not at all, as you want to dedicate yourself to becomming the best you can be, which is the main reason why you play. if you couldnt dedicate yourself to poker the way you needed to, you wouldnt be able to improve the way that you want, killing the motivation for why you play in the first place. i dont think that poker should be a problem with future wives. as long as they know ahead of time that you enjoy playing it should be fine. if you come across a woman who cannot accept poker as a habit in your lifestyle, then you simply have a choice to make between your 2 loves.

[ggbman]

I think that you need to be able to prioritize better. Your ex-wife could have handled your hobby better no doubt, but i think it's weird that you weren't just able to disconnect yourself from poker for something that important. That said, there is a fine chance that a future love will be more open to your hobby, but i still think you need to reflect and decide that poker is not more important than your love life and go from there. Hopefully your next gf will be ok with poker, especially when some of the spoils get her a nice engagement ring.

Good luck!

Gabe

[tpir90036]

It sounds to me like you might be addicted to gambling and not just "a big fan of poker." Your wife must have known that you played before if you had been together for 11 years...

The fact that something like poker could get in the way of the rest of your life points to it being an unhealthy obsession instead. Is there anyway you could just keep opker on the side as a hobby or pastime? If not, I think it defintely lends itself to a bigger problem...one that you should probably seek professional help for. I hope that everything works out for you....

Good luck,
-tpir

[Kaz The Original]

Woman are freaks.

[TStoneMBD]

i think its ok for him to feel dedicated to poker in such a way that he wants to either play regularly, or not play at all. we all have compulsions to our own extents, and i feel the same way he does about alot of things. however, its true that the fact poker diminished his love life may be recognized as a problem. i think as long as he knows he is able to quit poker forever, whether he wants to or not, he is not addicted. he is a winning player and therefore his addiction isnt causing any financial problems. the advice many of the posters on this thread should hold true for many addictions other than poker, such as fishing, golfing, working, travelling, etc. there are many things that people feel dedicated to, that make them happy, that their wives would prefer if they spent less time doing. poker should be no different.

[amulet]

i had a friend who has a very successful business. he and his wife went to counseling because she was ready to leave him. the psychologist after seeing them both seperately and together, explained to the wife that he did not have a gambling problem, and did not get the thrill out of it. that worked for them

however, why not keep it as a hobby. like golf is for most. play a night or 2 a week for several hours, one weekend day. playing poker is a tough life - my brother is a pro.

however, if you really love it, and are certain you do not have a gambling problem, i'd check it out with a professional first, then do what you love. being happy is impt. do not worry about what others think.

[CanKid]

I haven't read all of the other posts, but it seems simple to me.

Find a good woman who accepts your choices, it's not like you have a horse fetish or something, it's North American's new favorite past time.

Don't doctors get all the chicks anyway? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[AviD]

Hey Mizzles.

First, I'd like to commend you on your openness with your situation, and more importantly being honest with yourself.

Now, I see alot of controversy over the following part of your post:

[ QUOTE ]
One big problem is that for me it’s either all or none. I’m either in or I’m out. I’m either full on or rather not play at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly I share this same "feeling" when it comes to pretty much anything in my life. I am an extremist with my hobbies and either am 100% into them or hardly to not into them at all. I don't believe in doing anything half assed, and strive to be the best I can be at everything I do. Poker is no different, so I take it seriously just as I take "fun" things such as my other hobbies just as seriously. Some people say it detracts from the fun, but winning/success is my reward, although the experience is equally important. But experiencing for the sake of experiencing is insufficient for my own "goals" almost regardless of the medium.

So, some are seeing that as a "problem" or an "addiction", whereas I view it as "dedication to excellence". Granted I am not the "best" at anything I do, and more times that not merely average, but giving it my all and being 100% "into it" and getting positive results is what is rewarding to me.

I am not sure if that is what you intended in the meaning of what you posted or not, but I think (at least from my own interpretation) it is not quite as simple as scratching the surface of your words.

As far as your now ex-wife, I'm sorry for that experience. It is unclear as to why she reacted the way she did to your playing poker, but be sure of one thing...it was merely a scapegoat for her affair. And if was a "reason", it is a weak one as divorce is always an option before having an affair. I'm guessing either she had bad experiences in her family with gambling or somewhere in your marriage gambling negative effected your marriage's finanicial, mental, and/or emotional stability. I am not sure which, or if either is the case, but only one is moot in respect to this discussion.

If you have a problem with playing poker to a point where you cannot live without it, i.e. cannot function without playing poker for money, then you may indeed have a problem. Also, if poker is impacting your life and profession such that your life and/or other people's lives in your hands are at stake, then again you may indeed have a problem. And as others have mentioned, professional counseling is your best route to resolve those issues.

But that is not what I took away from your post, I saw it more as a dedication and enjoyment in pursuing a mastery of the game, and you are indicating you are a winning player as well. Perhaps early on, as was the case with most all of us, poker was addicting and you were entranced with playing incredible amounts of hours because the game is new, and you were excited about playing it, learning it, understanding it, and excelling at it. It is also not abnormal for college students to abandon their college duties for other activities (mostly drinking/partying/sex). Poker and gaming for ungodly amounts of hours are probably not too distant from the previous three.

So now on to the future. The next significant other in your life should support you in the things you do (poker being one of many things in your life), not alienate you for them. As far as time, age, etc, I understand...time is extremely valueable to me, and often times I have to step away from it all and reassess my place and path in life. In doing that, you will see whether or not you are reaching the levels in life you desire, and if not adjustments should be made. But more times than not, adjustments are rushed and made in haste, so just relax and let life unfold. Eventually things come together and equalize themselves. In fact, despite what you may feel right now, they are nearly equalized in the long run of life. Everything you are experiencing day to day is just a speed bump in the long road of life. Just cruise along and enjoy the scenery, there are alot of sights to see and enjoy between now and your final destination.

Good luck man, hang in there...things will work out just fine over time! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[lil']

Just tell anyone you become serious with about poker. If she's cool, she'll understand. You don't drop all of the things you love for someone. That just breeds resentment.

edit - oh yeah, if this was in the psychology forum, you may get more responses there.

[anatta]

Our stories sound very similar. I am a 35. My wife hates poker. I have my own small law office, I take a few clients a month. Nothing like before when I was working 6 days a week. For the past year, I made more money from poker than law. My goal is to give up the office, but I am struggling to win a small bet per hour, so unless I improve, I am not sure.

Playing poker professionally is my dream. When you chase a dream, you are going to run into people who want to "save you" from your dream. These people, your friends and family, mean well. But for me, life is all about chasing your dream. Its my life, and it seems like a short life at that.

When I started chasing my dream, I was a slave to my dream. I wanted to succeed so bad. I still want to succeed, but I am trying to make the actual pursuit the goal. I read that once you start living your dream you really start living. So I am living, but I can't say the poker life is that great. My marriage is not good. I don't blame her, from a woman's perspective, she married a hard working lawyer, not a card player! I can see myself giving up poker down the road, and finding something else to go for. Perhaps something more noble than poker. I had some happy moments at law, but mostly it was for the money and killing me. So if nothing else, I learned that its vital to find your dream and go for it. Don't hurt others with your chase, but don't concern yourself so much with it either.

I understand the desire to give poker your all. I am not sure if it is healthy, but that is what it is. Good luck, bro.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't doctors get all the chicks anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly this is a rhetorical question but since you asked...the answer is yes, yes they do.

I mean, no, only the one that counts. (wife reading this thread over my shoulder)

[mike l.]

"But I will get married again at some point, I’m 34 and don’t want to wait too much longer. So what then? I’m faced with the reality of probably having to give it all up."

no. marry someone who's sane because your first wife was most certainly not.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
dont listen to lilfeller, just because you want to either be dedicated to poker or quit entirely does not mean you need help at all

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between being dedicated to making yourself the best player you can be, and needing to focus all of your energy on poker. He said he had to go to med school over seas, because the temptation of poker caused him to bomb his first 4 years of college. At any rate, I'm not a medical professional, but I have plenty of experience with compulsive behavior, and his description of himself fits the mold. We're all entitled to our opinions, feel free to disagree.

lf

EDIT:: After reading the other posts, it is obvious that I am not alone on my opinion.

[SoBeDude]

1. don't let your ex-wife blame you for HER behaviour.

2. Not all women view poker as narrow-mindedly as she does.

-Scott

[ZZZ]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's my honest opinion...

Your wife goes out and fucks some other guy and she's blaming YOUR POKER PLAYING for it??!!

Sounds like your screening process needs a lot of work. I don't care how much in love you are, you shouldn't marry a woman who's not laid back, flexible, and forgiving. There's good women out there who'd stick by you even if you decided to become a car thief.

The level of devotion a woman has for you depends a lot on how you act, especially at the beginning of relationship. You want to be confident, in control (of yourself), and a challenge (for her). Let her chase you a little. Know how to say "no" to unreasonable requests.

ZZZ

[surfdoc]

Alrighty then, well rested on 5 hrs of sleep I come back to find out most of the important things have already been said. Take a good look at AViD and anatta's responses as they are well thought out.

I don't think there is enough info in your post to determine if poker is a problem for you or not. Only you can answer that question. It sounds as if you have the typical personality traits found in many successful people and in almost all doctors. As you know, nobody can make it through med school and residency without intense drive and commitment. That focus tends to apply in other parts of our lives and we often approach other areas with the same focus (this is no different that businessmen, lawyers, etc.) The main point is finding balance. I can understand your siuation completely as I am having daily conversations with my wife regarding time spent on poker versus time with the family. I married another ER doc who is hot, pretty friggin smart and successful herself with a 6 figure income so it is pretty tough to BS her. That being said, it is still hard for even intelligent, self confident women to understand the whole poker thing. It just doesn't make sense to spend so much time studying and playing for an income that is and may always be less than 1/3 of your standard hourly. In addition, it is hard for a person without a deep understanding of the game to understand that you won't just "lose it all" at one time when your roll is 50K you are palying in a 15/30 limit game. The only real argument that I can come up with is that "but honey, it is fun." I can tell you one thing for sure, I will not lose her for poker.

As far as your situation, I think if your ex-wife only knew about you playing occasionally and cited this as part of her reason for leaving, that is probably BS. Usually an affair is a symptom of a bad marriage and my guess is there were multiple other problems beyond poker relating to the "big 3" i.e. money, time, or sex. In you next relationship you just need to be open and your partner should not have any problems as long as you can find that balance.

This part here needs some more explaining:
[ QUOTE ]
I can’t and will not let this get in the way of my marriage again. I don’t see this NOT being a problem in any marriage, at least not in my culture. Even if I wanted to continue playing, and say be up front with the woman, how do you tell someone you’re an ER doc but also play professional poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

What culture are you referring to? It sounds as though you have some other family issues here to tend to.

I wish you well and really do understand your situation. The abilty to change, learn, and grow from out past experiences is also what makes us successfull in life. Hopefully one of the ways that you can change is to realize that poker is not an action potential. It should not be all or none.

BTW, doesn't it just suck when some chronic pain patient comes in at 3 am and all you can think about is "hmmmm, I really think a river checkraise would have been the way to go in that hand earlier."

[robert_utk]

I would test the water for a while with a woman then after you are ready to commit tell her FIRST that you are a poker player and LATER that you are a doctor. Hopefully then you will have a spouse that loves you for YOU and not any occupation.

[Jurollo]

Annie Duke is single isnt she?
~Justin

Sorry if that was poor timing

[DcifrThs]

ive read all the responses and think that youa re in a tricky situation...for me its a little different and i want to just say "balance is key." but for some its not that easy.

i have to tell myself, "barron, you set a 3 hr time limit and now you must stick to it b/c business school accounting isn't going to learn itself." then i say, "but barron, this uber-fish just 3 bet your AK UTG raise and turned and rivered a boat after the flop came AKJ[4-J], we're sure to get his money." but then barron wins and says, "if you can't stop now, its clear poker is more important than making upwards of 7 figures on the street...so fine, play if you must." barron then sighs and closes playerview, pokertracker and party and reboots his computer to have a nice new start and do some accounting...

so sorry for the long rediculous story but i think it is telling how addicting poker is, especially when you're winning...but ESPECIALLY when you're losing.

personally balance is key, but for you it may not be the same. i think the well thought out responses on here are great and to them i restate that finding a woman who can love YOU is most important.

-Barron

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
And she never quite healed from the early days, that 1 month had been like torture to her. 3 yrs later our marriage ended when she had an affair, and she recited these early happenings as part of the reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh for godsakes. Is this a troll? I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is just ridiculous. This was HER problem, not your problem. I hope you are over it enough now to hear that she was unstable in some way, and unless you left some parts out, this is not normal or acceptable on her part.

[ QUOTE ]
But I will get married again at some point, I’m 34 and don’t want to wait too much longer. So what then? I’m faced with the reality of probably having to give it all up. I really don’t see any way around it at this point.... I don’t see this NOT being a problem in any marriage, at least not in my culture.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good god man, why? Perhaps you're just not good yet at choosing the right women to date/marry. There is one little hurdle and one only to get over when explaining this to a potential mate, and that is that you're not going to be a problem gambler, ruining her and your life with huge gambling losses and skipping your Gambling Anonymouse meetings. If she can't understand when you explain it well what you are doing, then she simply isn't too intelligent and/or open-minded enough to consider marrying. It is she who would be throwing you away, not vice versa. A doctor and winning poker player is a great catch. My wife thinks it's cool that I play, ESPECIALLY because we are so tight financially right now. I explained when I started that I intended to put no more up than $50, and if I lost it, I was done. I never lost it, and we will be taking a trip to Las Vegas on my winnings in a few months, and staying at least one night at the Venetian, and she's extremely excited - a trip we couldn't have made without poker, given our current financial situation. My friends think it's very cool that I play poker. It's quite hip. My relatives - some of them I've told, and some I haven't. But never in my wildest dreams would I marry a woman who could not accept the things I love to do in life. And I don't love taking heroin or committing robbery.

[kowboy]

A first glance I thought I was reading an early script of rounders /images/graemlins/smirk.gif. My advice is you have to go with what you truly love in life. If risking it all follows in your dream go and get it. You have something to fall back on if things dont work out and if you dont try you will always ask yourself why? Sorry cheesy rhym. Life is very short dont die with what if on your plate. I'm assuming you dont have kids of course. Good luck in any endeavor. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[AviD]

Note: Barron talks to himself regularly, could be an sign of deeper mental issues! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if I wanted to continue playing, and say be up front with the woman, how do you tell someone you’re an ER doc but also play professional poker? To most women (and others) that sounds ridiculous.


[/ QUOTE ]

You know how some people have a problem with table selection? It sounds like you have a problem with woman selection.

No offense, but it doesn't sound ridiculous at all. Why would you want to be with someone who can't rationally understand your poker hobby?

Caveat: If you're playing so much poker that you don't have time for your woman, that's a different story. But I'm assuming it's just a healthy hobby for you, not an obsession.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Note: Barron talks to himself regularly, could be an sign of deeper mental issues! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


yes....issues...like steering clear of you on party...you play good. (that is if you are who i think you are)

-Barron

[elmo]

I agree completely with what you're saying Avid. In high school, my 15 hours of soccer practice a week with a travelling tournament was a testament to my dedication to the sport. Now, even 5 hours of reading and playing poker is a sign of addiction.

Luckily, my parents understand the game, and realize that I am neither addicted nor in it for some thrill. That being said, my last girlfriend didn't really understand the situation, and I've come ot the realization that some people never will.

Given that I plan on playing poker for a significant portion of my income after I graduate from school, I have no idea how I'd respond if my girlfriend or wife had a serious objection. Assuming I could find a reasonably paying job, I wouldn't let poker ever be the deciding factor in a marriage.

[AviD]

We've met and played at the Borgata (I mentioned this in a hand you posted from later that session after I had already left), and my Party nickname is pretty obvious +_iR

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
We've met and played at the Borgata (I mentioned this in a hand you posted from later that session after I had already left), and my Party nickname is pretty obvious +_iR

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm...i have no short term memory...who are you again?

i know i met evan, jpir5422342342978043709487, james282, flushed, scrub, and i got to see monkeyslacks again...so who were you? and were you at the 20 game ?

-Barron

[AviD]

I responded in your Borgata trip report (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=mediumholdem&Number=15 27773&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Borgata&Searchpage=0& Limit=25&Main=1527773&Search=true&where=bodysub&Na me=4192&daterange=1&newerval=2&newertype=m&olderva l=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post1527773)

The comment I remember from you was when you shook my hand when I left, said it was nice playing with me and you'd be SURE to sit on my right next time! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Note this was after I got abused by an hour+ of brutal beats (hand after hand after hand) by the asian guy at the other end of the table (9 seat, and I was in the 4 seat, you were in the 6 seat)...which you may or may not remember, but I do! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Little did I realize tpir18923890210931 (random numbers is indeed easier), was sitting two to my right and Shane was in between tpir and I in seat 3.

[DcifrThs]

oh yea!! that guy to YOUR right was the guy i was always after and i had hands that i could easily play against him but then YOU raised and i had you pegged as a competent player and tight...one time i had 99 and the guy to your right raised and you folded and another fold and it was on me and i thought YOu raised and was about to either fold or call but then i dont know how but i found out it was the guy to your right who raised and i immediately 3 bet and everybody at the table laughed.

that was funny....and yes you raised me off of many hands that i could have crushed the looser guy to your right with.

but it was nice meeting you and i'll pm you when i go that way again.

-Barron

[AviD]

Guy to my right is a very regular player, who plays full time. Very intelligent guy, but tiltable and a bit too loose (as are his friends) preflop.

I remember that session when I folded AQo to his friend's raise (whom I respected) and later discussed it and he looked at me like I had 3 heads for folding AQo to a raise preflop. After observing the hands they show down, I quickly realized I can widen my range of isolation hands against them...you picked up on that quickly as well! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anywho, yeah drop me a line next time you swing down. I'll be going down pretty regularly with a mix of snowboarding this and that weekend throughout the winter. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[leon]

The fact of the matter is you can have your cake and eat it too. I'm an anesthesia resident, have been playing and supporting myself for 5 years, and now supplement my nonexistent income (you remember those days, right?) with poker. And my woman of 7 yrs not only is totally understanding (we had a long distance thing for 4 years, and poker was what enabled the frequent travel/visits) but I taught her to play last year, and she become not only a regular participant in our home game but also a winning low limit player. So basically if you're finding the time to work and play, it's all good. The woman thing will work itself out, and it shouldn't be contingent on poker. I cringed when I read your earlier account of your ex flying off the handle about poker- not b/c poker is so important, but every relationship needs to be built around compromise and if someone is going to be that unreasonable about a genuine passion of yours then I say screw it. My fiance knew she couldn't fight it, so she joined it. And now loves it.

So good luck to you. Where are you practicing BTW?

Leon

[Bill C]

It takes a hell of a woman to be better than none at all.

If I were you, I wouldn't rush into another relationship, but would take some time and let my life level off in terms of career and poker, before I made any kind of commitments.

And life does go on. There will be other days for you. I am a retired MD, and had several avocations while I was working. The thing is, you have to learn to "juggle" all the things you are doing in your life, and that includes a loving relationship as exhibit #1, assuming you want to keep it. If you are truly dedicated to medicine, that has to be the second commitment. Then comes the other stuff.

Once I retired, I could move those avocations up to "full time status." Ands when you don't have a job, then you have time for all the poker you might want, plus having a life.

I wish you all the best. Judging from all the responses, I'd say you touched a spot in the lives of quite a few posters. Good luck, Buddy,

bill

[Felix_Nietsche]

"when she had an affair, and she recited these early happenings as part of the reason."
****PART of the reason. Bull***, she cheated plain and simple and poker was just an excuse to justify her infidelity. When men cheat it is because they are "pigs". When women cheat it is because their "emotionally neglected". Jeez, quite a double standard huh... I hope you learned your lesson about allowing women to emotionally blackmail you like that..... Read Bobby Baldwin's book how he handled his ex-wife when she didn't like his poker playing....

"But I will get married again at some point, I’m 34 and don’t want to wait too much longer. So what then? I’m faced with the reality of probably having to give it all up."
***Four words. "Act like a man." Tell any woman upfront(3rd date+) that poker is your hobby and make NO APOLOGIES. Emotionally healthy women respect this. Now if you were a losing player who gambled away the grocery money, THEN, a women would be TOTALLY justified in kicking your ass.....and running away....

As for your ex-wife. Throwing a vase is not a sign of an emotionally healthy person..

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[adanthar]

You sound like you do actually have a gambling problem based on that post, which your wife was terrified of. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. We're all armchair psychologists here (except for the occasional actual doc, I suppose) - take .3 of those BB's, go see a shrink and be honest about everything.

Your ex was an evil bitch who threw a vase and cheated on you, used A HOBBY YOU WERE GOOD AT AND GAVE UP FOR HER as an excuse and you are far better off without her.

Telling your next girlfriend everything up front will get you a rejection or two but you'll be far better off for it.

PS: My GF of 2+ years doesn't mind at all/encourages me despite never having heard of the game prior to dating me, so yes, it's possible.

[na4bart]

Be a doctor, play poker, get married, have kids and enjoy your life. You just got a lemon the first time, she was the exception not the rule. The people that matter don't mind and the people that mind don't matter...

[arkady]

great response. While it may be very damaging to "trash" one's ex, having an asthma attack over someone who played for an hour is down right lunacy.

[peachy]

Im writing fron a girls point of view here...so maybe that will help. Most girls (not saying me) have problems emotionally with things taking time away from them, its human nature, so possibly this was the source of her anger, etc.

Avid, as some know, is my best friend, so I can relate this towards him in a way. Like he said he is VERY similar to u in the "all or nothing" area, more than anyone I have ever met in my life, and at times it drives me nuts!

When he started playing poker it was all he did, read, thought, etc. and the same goes for all the other hobbies he has - he learns them inside out, perfects them, and this takes a good amount of his time. Now, here is what is important. I care about him, he is a dear friend of mine, therefore after he explains to me why he enjoys it and I see how important it is to him, I choose to accept the fact that he is going to play and yes this is going to lessen the time I get to spend with him, BUT out of care I "understand", although I may not be jumping for joy. (And he kinda had to beat it into mah head hehe well it took him explaing a few times anyway...so have patience!!...but then again I am not the brightest bulb in the box and i have have this small "the whole world revolves around me complex" but hey!! it only took a FEW times!!!)

When you remarry, I have no doubt that you can find a girl that understands your passions in life and/or hobbies, we might be few and far between BUT nevertheless we r out there! Never give up who u r for others b/c it will only come back to haunt u in the long run! U cannot change the person u r deep within, and that person will eventually surface. Now if "gambling" was hurting u in some way or u had no control over it I could understand her concern, but from what u posted it was not a problem for u, it was something u enjoyed, therefore I think it was something she should have accepted. I am sorry for ur loss, but everything happens for a reason and works out for the best.

Another option in the future might be to teach her how to play poker. Avid did this, and it allowed me to gain back some of that lost time with him as a friend, and it is something I enjoy. Although he may have created a monster! And i may be very angry at him one day! So when the guys have poker nights here I am always invited and they get a huge kick out of a girl who plays poker! So give that approach a whirl and see how it fits /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Either way, even if she doesnt like it she should still respect it and allow you to have that time doing what you love, or she doesnt love you. Through many boyfriends were didnt always PERFECTLY match, and i actually enjoyed that alone time I got to have while he was doing "his" thing: I got to relax, go shopping, hang out with the guys or girls, go to football games, anything I wanted, and I will never give up that luxury therefore I would never expect any guy Im with or any friend to give up something they enjoyed. It will work out for the best!! Good luck!!!!!

[Mizzles]

Wow. I never expected such a large number of responses. Thanks for all of those who shared their thoughts. I especially thank AviD for his well thought out and excellent response. Peachy it was nice to hear a response from a female on this topic.

[ QUOTE ]
LILFELLER: “this sounds like a symptom of compulsion, you should seek help”

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes and no. In my college days, yes, I’ll admit it was a serious problem. For one, I was getting my ass kicked and losing money. I was 19 back then. Those days I was playing blackjack, craps, sports betting, I was truly out of control. I was missing classes. All that is long gone, I wouldn’t go near a house game now, I’m too smart for that. It is NOT a compulsion but a drive to be the best, to master the game. It does not affect my daily work at all and would never affect my family. The only reason it affected my last marriage is because initially I never thought it would affect her in that way. But when I realized it was (althought it took me a month), I basically gave it up.

For those of you who said I should let them my future girlfriends know in advance of my hobby, that’s fine but much easier said than done! Most women would probably think I was trying to rationalize my gambling habit.

ME: “Oh by the way I play poker as a hobby.”
HER: “You play for money?”
ME: “Yes, but I always win in the long run, I’m very good and I do it for the love of the game”
HER: (thinking to her self) “You always win, mmhmmm. Sounds like you have a gambling problem.”

As surfdoc said, it is hard for someone without a deep understanding of the game to really know the reality of the situation. After all, say I was a true reckless gambler, how else would I present myself? In the same exact manner! I mean think of an divorced person who tells his new GF he has a drink in once in a while but he has it "under control." What sort of red flags do you think would go up in her mind?? It's the same thing!

[ QUOTE ]
TPIR90036: It sounds to me like you might be addicted to gambling and not just "a big fan of poker. Your wife must have known that you played before if you had been together for 11 years...

[/ QUOTE ]
I don’t feel I am addicted to gambling. The only form of “gambling” I have engaged in for the last 15 years is poker. As far as my ex - yes she did know I liked to play poker before we got married, as a matter of fact we went to Atlantic City on several trips together where I would play at the Taj for a while. That’s why I was even so much more shocked at the way she reacted once I started playing once we were married. See she never minded it as a social thing – ie if I played at the casino for fun, or even boys night poker night no problem. It was the internet thing that drove her through the roof – she saw that as an “addiction” rather than a hobby.

[ QUOTE ]
TStoneMBD: the advice many of the posters on this thread should hold true for many addictions other than poker, such as fishing, golfing, working, travelling, etc. there are many things that people feel dedicated to, that make them happy, that their wives would prefer if they spent less time doing. poker should be no different.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree 100% with this statement

[ QUOTE ]
AviD: either am 100% into them or hardly to not into them at all. I don't believe in doing anything half assed, and strive to be the best I can be at everything I do. Poker is no different, so I take it seriously just as I take "fun" things such as my other hobbies just as seriously. So, some are seeing that as a "problem" or an "addiction", whereas I view it as "dedication to excellence".

[/ QUOTE ]
I am the same way I couldn’t have said this better myself. This is exactly how I feel!

[ QUOTE ]
AviD: (poker) was merely a scapegoat for her affair. And if was a "reason", it is a weak one as divorce is always an option before having an affair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Let me clarify this a bit as others have commented on this. My ex never cited poker as THE reason for her affair. Of course, there were other, much more prominent issues in our marriage. However, when the marriage fell apart she kept talking about that month of online poker over and over. I got an earful on how I began the marriage out in the wrong direction. Although I do think it had a major impact on her psychologically, by the time the affair happened it was 3 yrs old, and really didn’t play a factor, but she just kept talking about it over and over at the end.

[ QUOTE ]
SURFDOC: BTW, doesn't it just suck when some chronic pain patient comes in at 3 am and all you can think about is "hmmmm, I really think a river checkraise would have been the way to go in that hand earlier."

[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL!!!!!! This really cracked me up.

[ QUOTE ]
LEON: So good luck to you. Where are you practicing BTW?

[/ QUOTE ]
I’m in the washington DC area.

[ QUOTE ]
NA4BART: Be a doctor, play poker, get married, have kids and enjoy your life. You just got a lemon the first time, she was the exception not the rule. The people that matter don't mind and the people that mind don't matter...

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post. I like these words.

Again thanks for all the responses! Now if I could only get some comments on that AK hand LOL.

[mythrilfox]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned before, and I'm just a college-age kid so I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I hate the idea of finding someone I love and then compromising my dedication to things I enjoy doing. I don't really think that's love. Sure, you have to work at love, but if working means giving up your ambition for higher ideals, then it cannot and should not be done.

I am sure that when you find a woman you want to (and truly should) marry, she will understand that about you.