Party Poker Millions satellites are a ripoff for many...

[TheHawk]

OK, I will start with a disclaimer, my site of preference is usually Pokerstars. I have played a lot at Planet (another good site), and lesser amounts at most of the other major sites. When I have played at Party, aside from finding their software highly irritating in a number of ways, I generally find that they are not a player friendly site (for example, the 10% adm fee they deduct from the bad beat jackpots, which basically means they figured out a creative way to increase their rake), and my most recent experience reinforced my belief. I attended a WPT event in
January(compliments of a pokerstars satellite), and enjoyed the experience thoroughly and hope to attend other events. Since I am only marginally interested in the EPT, and WSOP satellites at pokerstars dont start for a while, I cruised other sites for satellites to WPT events. The two I
focused on were Paradise (Shooting Starts) and Party Poker Millions event. Over the weekend I played in 6 or 7 of the one table 32 dollar (29+3) satellites at Party poker. I was fortunate enough to win 2 of them, so I had a couple of shots in their semi-final events. The prize money for the one table satellites is distributed as follows: 290 total,
32 for 2nd and 3rd (in the form of a freeroll in another one table satellite), with the balance of 226 going to 1st, which is an entry into their semi-final tournament, which costs 210+16. Stupidly, especially when risking my hard earned bankroll at Party, I did not read the fine print before entering these satellites. The semi-finals reward one seat for each 60 entrants, with the seats valued at 12,600 (which is 60*210). Obviously I assumed I would receive a full 210 in equity for my first place finish, and would have a 2 separate 1 in 60 chances to qualify for
the cruise. Now I read the fine print. For my first place finish, I get 1000 chips to start the tournament. However, people who play at their site a lot will be given extra starting chips, up to 3000 total. If the average stack to start the tournament is 2000, my odds of winning arent 1
in 60, they are more like 1 in 120 (ignoring differences in skill for the moment). And the prize that I paid for and won isnt really worth 210, it is worth half that amount. The remainder has been taken from me and given to players who log more hours than me at Party poker. When Pokerstars
rewards their loyal players with frequent player points (FPP's), the reward is usually the opportunity to play in some sort of freeroll, fully funded by Pokerstars. That is the way it should be, and represents a very fair way to reward players for their play. When Party rewards their
players for frequent play, they do it not with their own money, but by stealing from players like me, who log most their hours at other sites. In order to get the fully equity that I thought I won in the satellite, I am forced to log many additional hours at the tables at Party. That is not right, and in my estimation highly unethical on their part. I emailed my concerns to Party and got a series of ridiculous form letter responses. So, I will take my 1000 chips and play in two of their semi-final events. I have already withdrawn all other funds from Party. After the semi's are done, I will uninstall my Party software and will never, ever, play there again. From now on I plan to stick to playing at sites where I dont feel required to reading the fine print before entering
a satellite.

[Go Blue]

I completely agree with you. I tend to bounce around different sites when I play. I hate everything about Party, except for their game selection and constant availability (due to a large amount of players) of all types of games at all limits. Unofrtunately, this is the biggest determining factor for me when chooising where to play. Other than that, Party is an awful site. They take advantage of the fact that they have so many players. And speaking of player rewards, I haven't really looked TOO much into this, but their new player's club thing is much worse than that of Stars (I THINK), in terms of how many raked hands you have to play to get a certain item. Their customer service is awful, and even though they have a phone number, you can't ever talk to anyone who actually speaks decent English. Their email responces are ridiculous, as most are generic responces and you only get a personal responce usually if you send them another email. If only stars consistantly had full 1/2 and 2/4 limit Omaha8 I'd never stop playing there.

[Dominic]

that's why i play at Ultimate Bet...sure, it may take a little longer to gt a SNG going, but their software is the best out there, they treat their customers with respect, and I've always been fully satisfied by their customer service department.

[zaxx19]

Bump UB is good....Once they refunded me money I really didnt even lose...remember a few months back when the site went down. I lost like 17 bucks on some table they refunded me my entire buy in without me even asking.

[iturner187]

Why not just log some hands, enough to give you your full quota of chips and then never play the site again... It seems a bit silly to leave yourself at a disadvantage when you know you can be on an equal footing with a few hours playing at the site.

[freemont]

Personally I was delighted to find I get 3k in chips, even happier when I turned those 3k into a spot on the PPM.

[TheHawk]

No doubt. Congratulations, part of the equity I thought I won has been transferred to you compliments of Party poker.

[freemont]

thanks, unfortunately I won mine in November so missed out on your equity /images/graemlins/wink.gif Anyhow I would really suggest, as much as you are mad at party, playing the raked hands to get the extra chips, they are a huge advantage. (not to mention with the softness of party's games you'll probably make some money in the process)

Also I'd estimate the average starting stack is somewhere around 1800 as more people than you would think didn't have all 3k.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you on the cruise!

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks, unfortunately I won mine in November so missed out on your equity /images/graemlins/wink.gif Anyhow I would really suggest, as much as you are mad at party, playing the raked hands to get the extra chips, they are a huge advantage. (not to mention with the softness of party's games you'll probably make some money in the process)

Also I'd estimate the average starting stack is somewhere around 1800 as more people than you would think didn't have all 3k.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you on the cruise!

[/ QUOTE ]


actually, in the past, almost every semi has an avg starting chips around 2500.

but yea, depending on how much time the OP has between now and the Semis, its definitely in his interest to rack up the extra starting chips to get to 3000 in each of his two days. plus, im pretty sure he'll win money if he just 4 tables 1/2 or 2/4. no sense in him leaving himself at a disadvantage just because party weaseled him//other players.

[PokerPaul]

Hawk,

your points are well taken and I had the same feeling back when i started playing at PP.

I had played tons of those sattelites during their first year..but no ring games, and was surprised to see i was sucking wind once the tourney i qualified for with my $$ meant squat. I too did not read the small print, nor was i aware i should have to read page long documents for a simple STT....Sit and Go right?

I also had huge trouble with their customer service in those early years. The live chat rarely worked, and when it did, i rarely got anyone on other end. And the one time there was a glitch in the software (you could actually skip your BB, and come in on the SB if you hit a proper sit in/out sequence, and have someone else post BB's twice in a row to make up for it) they didnt belive me and belittled me for it, even though whole table saw it, and all service manager had to do was check HH, but he didnt even do that because he basically said im full of it.

Needless to say, it was shortly thereafter i too deleted the PP software from my computer to never return....for years literally.

3 full years later, and i decided to give them another try, and was flabbergasted to see all the traffic increase over those years.....tons of game selection, and some of the easiest games i have ever experienced.

Now i am playing there alot, just becasue of that..ample game selection and good clientele.

However, i do also feel that Party is very ...hmm dont know the right word here...unethical.. no...scrupulous in the way they treat their customers.

I made a lengthy post about this a while back discussing the issue, basically they are operating in an almost monopoly like environment where they can do and charge almost anything they want, and the players will keep coming regardless cuz its the only show in town that offers this much games and players.

But there will come a point where competition will become more balanced, and they will be forced to make some changes and try to gain some customer loyalty.

Remember Paradise Poker when they were the only show in town??? Now they are distant behind in terms of market share, and im not sad about that at all.

Some Party pissoffs:
- Take huge cut of already huge JP's
- Rake is still very hi
- The whole PPM sattelite issue
- PPM store basically just cheap items for players to become billboards for them
- Service marginal
- They do not return ANYTHING to loyal players (although i think this is changing now with their FPP program)
- Xtra tourney chips for PPM nice for players but again, doesnt cost them anything..ie. no return to loyal players.


On the flip side i must say they do still have very good:
- game selection
- opposition
- cashout procedures and speed


But when the time comes and another site can offer those 3 good points, i would not feel any loyalty to stick with party and would definitely move on.

[other1]

I just won a seat into the semis this weekend. How exactly do you go about getting extra starting chips? Simply play raked hands? If I'm currently clearing a bonus do the raked hands count for PPM chips too?

[TomCollins]

Or you could take advantage of a system and get 3000 chips and have a huge advantage.

Did this seem too logical to you?

[KingMedicine]

there is a specific link to check out how many extra starting chips you have.

from the website, clich on my account, log in and it will bring up a page where one of the links is "extra starting chips for PPM IV" or something to that effect. you'll need 2000 extra starting chips for each Semi entry you have to get the max 3000 chips (you get 1000 automatically).

you get one extra starting chip for each raked hand youre dealt cards in (you earn them in increments of 200) and you get 100 for winning a cash sng.

and yes, you earn them concurrently while working off a bonus.

hope this helps.

[other1]

Thanks! I have 500 so far. Not bad when I just won the seat Sunday. Can only earn points until the 31st, so I'll have to play a bunch on party the next few days.

[sfwusc]

NL $25

You can 4 table it, and get 200 raked hands an hour.

You need 3500/200=17.5 hours If you can win 20% of your sngs then 175/4 equals=19 SNGs

SWUSC

[Hofzinser]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember Paradise Poker when they were the only show in town??? Now they are distant behind in terms of market share, and im not sad about that at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with Paradise?
I've tried a few sites and find the software and whole feel of Paradise to be far superior to any other site I've found.
I'd be curious to learn of any problems people have had with it.

[ZeeJustin]

Wait, let me get this straight. Giving some players extra chips isn't good for all players!?!??! What a shocker!

[nsj]

Of course the fact that he can just play the necessary raked hands to get the extra chips is completely irrelevant to the post.

If I entered a B&M tourney and found out when I showed up that those who came for the buffet breakfast were going to be getting 2-3x my chip stack to start, I wouldn't be too pleased either.

Good post, TheHawk. Does PP have this same tournament loyalty program for other tournies besides the Millions?

[PokerPaul]

nothing wrong per say, but when they were the big monopoly of online poker (2000- early 2002) they would:

- have literally Zero player loyalty programs
- No promotions whatsoever save very rare millionth hand winner prizes
- would actually charge the full credit card processing fees to customers, so if you brought in for 200...ur already 6 or 7% behind.
- no live phone or chat support ..strictly email

The software was good back then, and likely still is, but they did not start to treat customers properly until competition forced them too. Until then they goughed them for whatever they could...

[Enecoman]

I completely agree. I set up an account with Party for the same reason and have been utterly disappointed with almost everything about the site. Let me list some of my complaints:

1. 20% bonus does not include Sit and Go play even though they rake 10+%!!!! Beyond bogus.

2. The software just sucks. So inferior to PS its funny.

3. Sit and Go structure is horrible! $800 in chips for 10 players and the blinds go up so fast it becomes a free-for-all in no time.

I also sent a message to customer service and got the standard BS responses. If party wants to continue to be a player in this sector they better get busy improving the site. i had hoped for a much better experience.

[Vee Quiva]

From a business standpoint here is what they are thinking....tournaments are by far the least profitable use of Party Poker's resources. They collect their service fee but then they do nothing but tie up their players for a few hours while they could be paying rake on the ring games.

There are many brick and mortar casinos that offer starting bonuses in their tournaments for early birds.

I think if you asked most card room managers they would eliminate tournaments all together if it wasn't for the riot it would cause from all the World Series of Poker wannabes.

Do you know if you buy in directly to the semi finals if you get the full starting stack amount?

[freemont]

Nope, you still need to have played the raked hands for the extra starting chips...