Game type problem

[Bradyams]

Every Monday night and Thursday night some guys from the dorms here get together and play a friendly poker game. The last couple of weeks it hasn't been so friendly.

For the first few months of playing we played either $5 or $10 buy-in tournies, and paid to the top 2 or 3. We usually get between 10-15 players. Well for some reason they all decided last week to play a ring game. That was fine with me until what happened. Someone would win a big hand, double up, and immediately cash out. That takes all the money off the tables since we have a limited number of players. I tried telling everyone this was gonna happen, but they still want to play ring style. So then they tried to come up with rules like you have to stay at the table for a minimum for an hour, or leave atleast $20 on the table if you leave. Then they said we should play it out until someone has all the money (same damn thing as a re-buy tourney).

My question is, does anyone here run a home ring game with a limited number of players? How exactly do you run it to avoid hit-n-runs? I don't think I'm gonna convince them to go back to tourney play which is ok cause I've still been winning, but it sucks when someone calls an all-in, hits a 4 outer on the river, and cashes out with half of the money from the table.

Thanks,
Bradyams

[RRRRICK]

Its very poor to make early pots and run off with the money. At the casino's this isn't an issue as there are players in waiting ready to take seats bringing more money to the table. I host ring games often and I have some ground rules which I explain clearly before a card is dealt. I first set a finishing time which all players are happy with, if one or more players for what ever reason are not able to stay until the finish they must state the time they wish to leave before a card is dealt. I also forbid any player from sitting out of the game for any significant amount of time(I once played at a home game where one player was winning big after an hour got up and said he was going to have a break and convieniently feel asleep on the sofa for the rest of the game). Of course a player is free to leave if they have lost an amount and don't want to rebuy. If you don't want to go to this trouble then stick to tourney's

[The Armchair]

Require that a person sit for a certain amount of time before they can leave -- as in, a # of hours -- with a permissible number of missed and unpaid big blinds. For example, if you want to go for a 3 hr game, the rule is that you (via your chips) are in at the table for at least 2 hours (or even 3) with one free missed blind. The latter rule takes care of extra-long bathroom breaks and/or phone calls.

If someone wants to hit-and-run, they can, but they'll pay blinds until their time is up.

[wingsfan]

You just need the right group of players. My group prefers a ring game and most of us play all night. I don't have to enforce any hit and run rules because 95% of the people there are in it for the long haul. The occasional one or two people have to split early sometimes which is a huge advantage to playing ring. If your players can't agree on when people can and can't leave ("announce a half hour before you leave", "play one more orbit before you leave", etc.) then you probably need to go back to tourneys. Or option B is living with the hit and runs and hoping that you bust them next time. They have to lose eventually, or so variance would say.

[timmer]

There is nothing you can or should do about it. if someone wants to hit then run let them.

Just remember as host you have the right to reserve seats for the regular players /images/graemlins/wink.gif

timmer

[jtr]

I agree with Timmer.

Pointless trying to enforce some way of getting the would-be hit-and-run guys to hang around. Think long-term: if they're irrational players who want to lock up a big win, just make sure you invite them next week too.

[Slim Pickens]

I've actually been accused of hit-and-run tactics while sitting at the table. I play tight, so if I do hit a big pot, people sometimes accuse me of "hoarding" it. This made me realize that at least half of the players (mostly mid/late 20's people I knew in college and still play every so often) in my game didn't care at all about the money and were JUST looking for excitement. We play loose attrition rules; that is, it's bad form to cash out early, but not strictly forbidden. It seems to work, but just barely. If the players in your game can't handle the "honor system," the host should dictate a system that will get enough players to fill a game, and still leave everyone feeling like they got their money's worth out of it, whatever that means for them.

I suspect that the players who gripe about wanting to play ring games will still show up for a tournament. They probably just don't like the idea of playing wild (fun for them) and busting out early, then spending the next three hours watching some rock fold or push every hand.

For 15 people, where a $10 buy-in get 1000 in chips, the first 8 out join a side NL ring game with a max buy-in of $2 for 200 chips. The holder of all 1600 chips gets to come back to the main table with them.

This is just an idea. I haven't tried it, but the point is most kids playing poker want action, action, action, and a NL ring game gives the most for the "action players," since they can bust and rebuy at will. If people are intent, on the hit-and-run, you can't stop them unless you can rightly keep their money in the house's pocket until the end.

Slim

[BlueBear]

Your friends know very little about poker ethics.

Winning a big pot and immediately leaving is extremely poor form and is a MAJOR breach of poker ethics. It is frown upon in ANY poker game and such behaviour does nothing but completely spoils the game with excess money being taken out. No home game ever tolerates this and is also looked down in casino play.

I would suggest that any player must give a notice of half-an-hour to an hour before leaving. Alternatively, change the rules for a tournament style game or don't bother inviting those players who did a hit-n-run or just don't play. Show them this thread.

[YTV]

[ QUOTE ]
Your friends know very little about poker ethics.

Winning a big pot and immediately leaving is extremely poor form and is a MAJOR breach of poker ethics. It is frown upon in ANY poker game and such behaviour does nothing but completely spoils the game with excess money being taken out. No home game ever tolerates this and is also looked down in casino play.

I would suggest that any player must give a notice of half-an-hour to an hour before leaving. Alternatively, change the rules for a tournament style game or don't bother inviting those players who did a hit-n-run or just don't play. Show them this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is complete bullshit. If a player loses all his money he can leave whenever he wants and noone cares. The same should be true if someone wins a pot. If someone wins a pot and just happaned to want to leave soon anyways for whatever reason, so what? I dont want to goto a game where I have to babysit people or feel like im being babysat.

[Bradyams]

[ QUOTE ]
Show them this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way in hell will I tell the people I play with regularly about 2+2 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jack spade23]

I play in a small home game with some friends, and we just started playing .25/.5 limit games as opposed to nl games. Not only has this made my playing better but it helps to stop people from getting up a lot early. It is clear that those people who walk away cannot handle the swings of nl. Look, all you gotta do is ask them to buy back in their original amount and they can keep the profit. Its not that they dont want to play, its just that they dont want to lose the profit.

[trevorwc]

I'm not really adding anything new here, but I've got two thoughts. 1 - Let 'em go, it's no fun for anyone to make someone stick around or 2 - Go get a new group of guys that aren't such pu$$ies. If they can't handle the risk that goes with playing NL, then they shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Fins]

Thread discussing cashing out (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1335366&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

- Fins

[smoore]

Just tell them that the're an a**hole and if it happens twice, "Well, I just won that big pot so I'm leaving now, cya at the bar!" then don't let them sit anymore. They will never change, f them. I have never had this problem but I wouldn't be opposed to getting in someone's grill because they want to sit and we don't want them to.

[RackOChips]

Just play limit poker.

[timmer]

when you have a limited # of seats you dont really want hit and run artists sitting in them . Unless of course you are getting a rake.

Just reserve seats for the normal players and perhaps allow the hit and runners to "play over" the reserved button . Once the reserved Player shows up the hit and runner must pick up.

Explain this practice to the hit and runner and it might just change the unwanted behavior. If not just see how he likes getting picked up next time a reserved player shows up while he is stuck to the gills /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Heres a hint, start taking reservations at the end of the game for the next nights game.

timmer

[RRRRICK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your friends know very little about poker ethics.

Winning a big pot and immediately leaving is extremely poor form and is a MAJOR breach of poker ethics. It is frown upon in ANY poker game and such behaviour does nothing but completely spoils the game with excess money being taken out. No home game ever tolerates this and is also looked down in casino play.

I would suggest that any player must give a notice of half-an-hour to an hour before leaving. Alternatively, change the rules for a tournament style game or don't bother inviting those players who did a hit-n-run or just don't play. Show them this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is complete bullshit. If a player loses all his money he can leave whenever he wants and noone cares. The same should be true if someone wins a pot. If someone wins a pot and just happaned to want to leave soon anyways for whatever reason, so what? I dont want to goto a game where I have to babysit people or feel like im being babysat.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go to a friends place for dinner do you arrive 5 minutes before the meal and leave as soon as you finish eating, no because its rude.

[Bradyams]

[ QUOTE ]
Just play limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish! Everyone there is into the new NL hype. All the fish I play with are LAPs, but the only other couple of good players are LAGs so obviously they don't want to play limit. If we went to limit I'd probably be the only one who would want to play. It's sad really, I prefer limit over NL.

[bolgenmod]

I read the posts in this and the other linked thread, and I have to say that one thing wasn't mentioned -- the blinds. Even at the casino, most people play around until their blinds (even after dragging a big pot).

Well, we play limit (and very low-limit), so our "scores" aren't huge, but no one usually cashes out in the middle of an orbit simply because of the blinds. Someone who is tired will usually say "Who started this mess?", someone will answer "Mike" or whatever, and they'll say, "ok, I'll play around to Mike." Now our game is tiny (.20-.40 blinds), but it still seems courteous to wait for the blinds to be "right," that is, everyone has paid the small and big blind for that orbit of the table. (And usually no one completely busts out at these levels!)

So why not use the blinds as a way of setting up a rule -- a player can declare his intention of cashing out as soon as the button has moved back to its original position, but he cannot cash out (or skip his blind) before this happens. This would usually be less than an orbit, less than a half hour, and unless the hit-and-run artist has hit on just the right hand, he will probably have to wait at least a couple of hands. (Of course, if someone does bust, you have to do the old dead button thing, but...)

Just an idea.