I got berated for this play

[Bigwig]

Dude railbirded me for 20 minutes.

"You're an idiot."
"You're weak."
"You suck."

You know, all the intersting stuff.

PokerStars $30, 7 handed, blinds 50/100

Relevant stacks:

MP1 (t2400)
SB/Hero (t1800)
BB (t1700)

UTG folds
MP1 calls 100
MP2 folds
CO folds
Button folds
Hero 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif completes
BB checks

Flop A /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks
BB bets 400
MP1 folds
Hero reraises to 1700 all-in
BB calls

Turn: T /images/graemlins/heart.gif
River: 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif


Thoughts?

[Sidekick]

I'll take a stab at this although with no reads it's difficult to make an accurate judgement. I'll also assume that the obnoxious railbird was BB after you knocked him out on this hand.

Personally I think completing from the SB with your hand is questionable, but if the table has been tight up to this point then I think the play has more merit.

You caught middle pair with a weak flush draw. I can see several ways to play this hand at this point:

1. check/fold to any bet that doesn't give you correct odds to hit your flush or other outs.

2. make a decent sized bet representing an A in your hand and fold to any raise.

3. check/raise semi-bluff (which is what you did).

Unless BB has a solid read on you and has a very good hand himself, I don't see how he can berate your play (though I see it happen all the time when someone loses and they think they 'should' have won the hand).

Once BB calls and sees your hand, it's obvious that you were on a semi-bluff. It's a part of poker that sometimes that semi-bluff hand will hit and beat you. If the railbird is BB then all he is doing is whining because he was ahead (most likely) when he called your all-in, but you managed to draw out on him.

Had you called when someone had raised you PF and then made this play after they had made a pot sized bet, THEN I'd say that yes it was a boneheaded play.

It's a gutsy play as is any all-in semi-bluff IMO. Making gutsy plays is a necessary part of a NL arsenal. I wouldn't worry about the railbird's ranting.

[bigredlemon]

Your hand vs. AK

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As 4s 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 6s 505 51.01 485 48.99 0 0.00 0.510
Kd Ah 485 48.99 505 51.01 0 0.00 0.490
</pre><hr />


You had the better hand. He's the idiot.

[jedi]

It looks like you had 13 outs to beat him (assuming he didn't have 2 pair or better) and might even have had the best hand. If he only had top pair, you weren't a huge dog and might have gotten someone to fold, thinking you had a set. Good move, you hit your outs.

[betgo]

The checkraise allin is a standard play with a strong draw. A flush draw combined with two overcards, a pair, or any straight draw is a strong draw that is probably the favorite versus top pair. The pair gives you 5 outs to make two pair or trips times 2 cards.

You probably can get a weak draw or a weak pair to fold and you are the favorite versus a pair plus you have some pot odds. You could be in trouble versus a set or a higher flush draw with a higher pair, but you still have outs.

I wouldn't pay attention to anyone berating you from the rail. Why is he on the rail? A good player generally does not berate fish about bad play and would have better things to do.

[iMsoLucky0]

So did you have 88?

[Profit]

he had the 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif......

[Daliman]

The SB complete is fine, the allin raise is also fine, although I may have raised a bit less for deceptive value, but it's all getting in there either way. He played his AK weak for trap value, and ran it into an uberdraw when he overbet the flop obviously. Only consideration here is folding on the flop because he is fairly obviously calling allin, and you are slightly better than 50% chance to win here, but i think raising is the MUCH better option overall, given your prohibitive amount of outs, the folding equity only being a slight added bonus.

[betgo]

The allin and the call are pretty standard. A checkraise allin does look like a flush draw, so a smaller raise is possible and might be more likely to get a fold.

The BBs plays are a little unusual. I don't see a lot of point in trapping with AK, as you are usually not going to flop an ace or a king and don't have the nuts if you do. I would raise from the BB, not totally minding picking up the pot right there.

The overbet on the flop is not necessarily bad, but since the SB hasn't shown any strength, it seems like overkill.

I would have raised preflop from the SB with 86s on the semibluff. However, since you want to keep the money deep with this hand, completing is also good.

[Bigwig]

The villain actually had A7o.

[ColdestCall]

"The villain actually had A7o."


Somehow this does not surprise me. Anyone who would spend that much time berating you from the rail is by definition an idiot.

[Tosh]

Another bitter loser who thinks he's a whole lot better than he actually is. Ignore.

[PE101]

I don't know about PokerStars, but Party allows you turn off "viewer" chat. That's the 1st thing I do when I sit down. I only wish that I could turn off player responses to viewers.

I say, turn off the annoying chat.

[jcm4ccc]

I don't understand why everybody thinks his all-in raise on the flop was a good play. The villian was in the BB, so he could have had anything.

Villian has:
AK, AQ, AJ, AT: Hero has 50/50 chance of winning
AK with King of Spades: Hero has 45/55 chance of winning
Two pair (A4): Hero has 40/60 chance of winning
Set (44): Hero has 30/70 chance of winning
Higher flush draw (Js 9s): Hero has 50/50 chance of winning.

At best it's a coinflip (well, it turned out to be better than a coinflip because the villian was a complete idiot, but you couldn't know that). The villian is almost certainly not folding. Why go all-in on the flop? Why not fold?

[betgo]

Pot odds and folding equity. Calling a checkraise allin is not that easy. Some people will push with a big made hand to make it look like a flush draw. You might be up against an ace with a higher kicker who wants to shut out a possible flush draw.

The overbet could be a total bluff heads up or the BB could have second or third pair. It is unlikely the BB has an ace with a decent kicker, since he didn't raise preflop. In fact, it was an error not to raise with A7o. You are in trouble against a set, but second pair is more likely than a set.

Calling the push was OK, but borderline. Otherwise, your opponent played this hand badly.

I am always pushing late in an SNG particularly if it is passed to me in the SB. Sometimes the player to my left stays on to root for my opponent when it gets heads up. I take this as a compliment.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Why go all-in on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold equity. By check raising all-in, I give the impression of a strong A, or two pair, maybe even trips. It then takes a big hand to call me. Therefore, most players will let a weak A go, and I win a good pot right there. They only need to fold an a small amount of the time to make this play good. Maybe as little as 10% of the time.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why everybody thinks his all-in raise on the flop was a good play. The villian was in the BB, so he could have had anything.

Villian has:
AK, AQ, AJ, AT: Hero has 50/50 chance of winning
AK with King of Spades: Hero has 45/55 chance of winning
Two pair (A4): Hero has 40/60 chance of winning
Set (44): Hero has 30/70 chance of winning
Higher flush draw (Js 9s): Hero has 50/50 chance of winning.

At best it's a coinflip (well, it turned out to be better than a coinflip because the villian was a complete idiot, but you couldn't know that). The villian is almost certainly not folding. Why go all-in on the flop? Why not fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot the villian possibly having KK-99, Ax, 67o,(it happens, believe me,)23o, 25o, and 56o. All these make it perfectly fine to raise and put HIM to the decision.

Everything is not about finite odds.