2+2 table... top 2 pair on monotone flop

[soah]

.5/1 ten-handed with everyone playing extremely tricky and aggressive

Two or three limpers which is unusual. SB completes. I check in BB with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Flop is A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif rag /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets pot, I call, others fold

Turn is brick

SB bets pot, I call.

We have enough money left for exactly one more pot-size river bet.

What's my plan for the river for the various situations I may encounter?

How is my play so far?

I will give my thoughts later.

[tbach24]

I raise the flop. You need to be able to see how he reacts. I fold to a push (at best you are up against K-high diamond draw, worst case scenario he has a set of Aces and you're drawing to running tens/diamonds. I don't think you can just call the turn. Either you push or fold.
What's your plan for the river if he pushes and you don't catch a T or A?

[tbach24]

I take a set out of the equation (he probably would've raised with TT or AA pre-flop) and since you said rag, I don't think he's got a set of them. He probably either has a baby flush and doesn't want a high diamond to come. I didn't notice he was SB in my previous post, somehow slipped away from my thoughts while I was replying I guess.

[Stickmn24]

I read something like this in a Cardplayer article... I agree that you have to raise at least the flop or turn here. With a suited flop, you should try to make it expensive for the others to get the flush.

Here's the article: Cardplayer Archives (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14445&m_id=65552)

[amoeba]

I think normally I would raise the flop but at this table where you are either up against a bluff or a flush, I like the way you play it.

you gotta push a diamond river if checked to.

check/call a none diamond river.

Thats my plan anyways.

fold to a bet on a diamond river.

[soah]

On the flop I felt like his bet could come from any ace, a made flush, or almost anything else. I decided to just call and see how the action developed behind me. I was not worried about someone behind me with the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif because they would only be getting 3:1 to call on a 5:1 draw with virtually no implied odds. So it's not costing me any EV for the bare king to overcall. If the SB just has the draw, then he is already charging himself to draw at the flush when he bluffs. Sure I could raise to blow him out, but a) the pot is still small b) he may already have me beaten c) he may have a marginal made hand, and put ME on a draw when I just call, and d) I have position on him

On the turn when he bets big again it looks much more like he has a made hand than just the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif so I'm either way ahead or way behind.... if he does have the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif then he would know that I could only have called him on the flop with a made hand and I don't think he'd try to blow me off of it (I have shown a willingness to be stubborn in this game). So I'm figuring that one of his cards must pair the board, and the combined odds that his kicker is a diamond, AND that the river will bring a diamond are pretty low. If I raise big right now he's unlikely to make a mistake against me... but if I just call he could easily make a mistake against me on the river since I'm in position and have done nothing to define my hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($150.3)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($243.9)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($53.25)</font>
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($50)
UTG+2 ($56)
MP1 ($69.05)
MP2 ($58.35)
MP3 ($127.05)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($12) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10.

River: ($32) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $38.25</font>, Hero calls $38.25.

Results:
SB has Tc 9c (three of a kind, tens).
Hero has Ts As (full house, tens full of aces).

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think you (and amoeba) played this hand nicely. Thanks for the post.

[BobboFitos]

Soah, on a river brick (non full boat / diamond) do you still call an all in?

[boondockst]

what's this guy's SN? he called a turn bet with middle pair with 3 to a flush out and no kicker???? i see stronger plays at my $10 NL table all the time.....

Point me to the rich chaser-types.....(j/k i know you just need to play your game and find them and take advantage of them as you find them)

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
what's this guy's SN? he called a turn bet with middle pair with 3 to a flush out and no kicker???? i see stronger plays at my $10 NL table all the time.....what's this guy's SN? he called a turn bet with middle pair with 3 to a flush out and no kicker???? i see stronger plays at my $10 NL table all the time.....

[/ QUOTE ]

He was betting, not calling. Big difference.

[edge]

Well, apparently I was the villian in this hand. I honestly do not remember it at all, but it's in my database, so I must have played it.

I probably thought I was ahead, as you wouldn't check in the BB with an Ace. Not sure what I was doing on the river, since I must have put you on the diamond draw. I really don't know what I was doing on this hand. I certainly made some strange moves in that game.

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
Soah, on a river brick (non full boat / diamond) do you still call an all in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you asked Soah, but in my opinion I fold if a brick rivers and villain pushes all in.

Because inorder for villain to bluff the river, he has to 1. realize that you don't have the flush (calling the flop and smooth calling the turn at this level could easily be a trapping play from a nut flush) 2. Believe that you are tight enough and has enough money still left to lay down the 2 pair/set that you are on.

I just don't see a bluffer firing a third barrel on the river.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
Soah, on a river brick (non full boat / diamond) do you still call an all in?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not something I had fully decided really. It might help to tell a story of a previous hand I had played with him. He open-raised from late position one hand and I called him and we took the flop heads up. It was a drawless rag board. He bet and I called. He check-called on the turn and checked the river and pushed when I bet nearly all-in... he had flopped a small set and I was just on a steal with ace high, trying to represent a set. So on our current hand I was expecting him to check the river to me in hopes of picking off my "bluff". Had he pushed on a river brick I would have had to stop and re-evaluate everything.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, apparently I was the villian in this hand. I honestly do not remember it at all, but it's in my database, so I must have played it.

I probably thought I was ahead, as you wouldn't check in the BB with an Ace. Not sure what I was doing on the river, since I must have put you on the diamond draw. I really don't know what I was doing on this hand. I certainly made some strange moves in that game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was indeed a bit confused by your play. I figured on the river you must have either hoped I'd pay you off with an ace, and/or you assumed that you had too much to fold and knew I'd bet big anyway if I had you beat, so you might as well get the money in first.

One other thing... for some reason at the time I played the hand I had not realized that Matt had posted a live blind. I thought that he had limped in. Had I realized that he had checked and Yeti had merely limped, I may have been more inclined to raise preflop. But there's still a strong case for checking, especially since Yeti would probably call my raise with anything and have position on me.