Stop with the Propaganda

[theredpill]

Party Poker has the best No Limit players .25/.50 of any site I have been on to date. They are damn good. No lie. Not sure what some of you are smoking.

A good table -- (table full of fish) have 4 or 5 players at least seeing the flop. Jesus, most tables I was on, had at most 2 players seeing the flop. One guy in MP and the BB usually. Good god. Party Poker must be 70 % pros now. Their postflop skills are exceptional. You guys need to cut it out.

Go to Absolute Poker or Paradise Poker and sit down at .10/.25 then go to Party Poker's lowest stakes which is .25/.50 and you will definitely see a difference.

Most of the time, a guy bets on the flop and everyone folds.

[theredpill]

LOL...unreal. Go sit down at a table and make a $2 raise preflop and watch everyone fold.

[edtost]

6max is your friend. as is table selection.

[theredpill]

I can't win at 6 max.

[nickey009]

If they are that tight then you should be more aggresive and steal. Heck, you steal twice and it's worth it.

[edtost]

then you're not very good at poker.

[theredpill]

A Q

called $3 raise preflop.

Board: Q J X

SB goes all-in for 5.75

I call.

Preflop raiser goes all-in for 14.75

You call ? I thought about it then called since only $9 more but I had 5 outs and was getting 3 to 1 so that was dumb of me.

He had K K

Who calls ? Who folds ?

OK OK ....I'm tired of hearing how bad I am at poker.

You think its possible that this guy is pushing with A K . Not unless he is extremely stupid.

[theredpill]

I called because I just couldn't believe he had K K .
Any remedy for this ?

[Kaz The Original]

Don't call 6x the BB raises with AQ?

[BradleyT]

AQ is extremely over-rated unless you're doing the raising. I rarely if ever call a raise with it unless i have position and the raise was from some jackal.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker has the best No Limit players .25/.50 of any site I have been on to date. They are damn good. No lie. Not sure what some of you are smoking.

A good table -- (table full of fish) have 4 or 5 players at least seeing the flop. Jesus, most tables I was on, had at most 2 players seeing the flop. One guy in MP and the BB usually. Good god. Party Poker must be 70 % pros now. Their postflop skills are exceptional. You guys need to cut it out.

Go to Absolute Poker or Paradise Poker and sit down at .10/.25 then go to Party Poker's lowest stakes which is .25/.50 and you will definitely see a difference.

Most of the time, a guy bets on the flop and everyone folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I make a decent chunk of my money by autobetting the flop after raising preflop and betting almost every paired flop, regardless of preflop action. Party 50NL players are very weak-tight, except for the maniacs, and they can be identified quickly. It's not too difficult to trap and stack the maniacs, so they're not a problem either. Honestly, I have not played against a single player better than me, and I know I'm nowhere near perfect. Part of that could be game selection though; if you're stuck at a tight table and you don't feel like chipping away with steals, then find another one. Party has tons of tables, and most of them are great games.

Another thing: 70% of 50k players is a lot of pros. I wonder where the bad players are?

[edtost]

not thinking aq is a good hand?

[vanHelsing]

fold preflop, you are even at best.
raise the flop, it is the one you wanted. Don't give a cheap card here, you are going to call anyway.

[theredpill]

yeah I should have folded preflop. I'm too loose. I can get away with it at other sites because there aren't near that many maniacs or maybe I've been lucky.

Where are the bad players, edge ?

I don't know. I'm spinning my wheels here. Up $18 on one table and $6 on another. Twiddling my thumbs.

[theredpill]

got on party Full Ring and it was a culture shock. I handled Absolute Poker and Paradise fine but man, Party games go faster than any other NL game I've seen.

Anyway, I made mistakes and was down 2 buy-ins but I'm slowly getting it back. I have to realize that not every player on the table is dumb.

I have a feeling that the people who get on here and tell others that they aren't any good probably aren't doing that well themselves. If you are pulling in $200/day, why would you bother telling me I suck ?

[trapeze]

you have got to be kidding. where else have you played that you can make such an assertion? for that matter, how many hands have you played in order to know this? have you logged your play using poker tracker and auto-rated the competition to arrive at this conclusion?

[PoBoy321]

People tell you you suck because you misplay most of the hands you post on here. That's fine. That's why you post them. Stop berating people who are trying to help you.

[warlockjd]

you obviously havent played NL for very long. perhaps next time, just inform the fish that you are a pro and ask them to transfer you their bankrolls...im sure you ll have equal success

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
I called because I just couldn't believe he had K K .
Any remedy for this ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Until you are a solid 5 BB/hr/table winner at these levels don't even call a miniraise with AQ.

When you are just learning, you can cut out a lot of your postflop mistakes preflop by folding hands such as AQ KQ AJ KJ to even a mini raise

[theredpill]

Who am I berating ?

Warlock , are you serious ? Wouldn't that basically limit me to seeing about 10 % VPIP ?

[theredpill]

What's wrong with asking people to be realistic ? There's a lot of pros on party poker. Duh.

I see a lot of players on here post hands where they misplayed them. I know some you slowplay your straights and sets on the flop.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
Warlock , are you serious ? Wouldn't that basically limit me to seeing about 10 % VPIP ?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes im serious...my little bro and others i teach only call any raises with pairs or AK until they have considerable experience

tight is right man

[TheWorstPlayer]

This is VERY good advice. I'm glad no one on Party follows it. After I took a guy's stack for the second type today with top pair he goes "I have been getting killed with top pair, today! This is ridiculous!" I think to myself "Well maybe you shouldn't call my raises with KTo." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been getting killed with top pair, today!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hillarious, I am about 75% sure I saw the same comment verbatim today. If not verbatim, it was damned similar. Party $100 NL 6 max by chance?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Party NL25 6max. Glad it doesn't change. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[warlockjd]

yeah...or "I am gettin killed with (insert overpair) today"

[theredpill]

Yeah, I don't call raises with K T . Just curious, what did you put him all-in with where he had top pair ?

If I had $10 for everytime a player hit a gutshot straight on me today, well, I'd have probably $30 or $40.

So VPIP 15 % , raise with few hands, don't call raises with A Q or weaker and you think I will be ok on party ?

I play with a VPIP of around 30 % on other sites and do ok so I have to become a completely different player on party. It is wierd. I guess I do better playing pros or people who understand a little about poker.

Man, tonight just leaves me shaking my head in amazement. Some guy called off $8 preflop with 8 5 and hit two pair to crack KK . Another guy called off $10 preflop with K 9 to hit a full house to crack AA . This is on $.25/.50 Full ring NL at Party. ??? I don't know. I can't put the plays into words.

[TheWorstPlayer]

It was the exact same scenario both time for me. I raised with a big pair. He called with crap. He hit top pair, good kicker. I bet the pot on the flop, he raised me all in, I called. I took his stack.

[theredpill]

Also, how many years do I need under my belt to be considered "experienced" NL player ? How many years do you guys have under your belts ?

I'm going to take your advice and tighten up big time preflop. I raise to $2 preflop with TT , JJ , QQ , KK, AA . See a problem there ?

What do you do if you raise to $2 preflop with A K and completely miss and you are first to act ? Thanks. I sometimes bluff but it seems someone always calls me on Party or reraises me.

Also, if you have AK and you raise, you miss the flop, and an EP player bets the pot, is this an automatic fold ? Thanks

[theredpill]

OK, thanks WorstPlayer. Interesting. I had A A and raised . I bet about $6 . Pot was $ 7. Guy in SB reraises me all-in for the rest of my stack. ( $14) . I called and he had flopped a straight. This ever happen to you WorstPlayer ? Flop was K 9 T . Thanks. Is this an automatic call ? I'm sure over the course of time I would make a little money from some of the other knuckleheads doing this but just lost out this time. Right ?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I've been playing poker for 6 months. NL for 2. I think you need WAY more than that to be 'experienced', but it definitely depends on how much you play and how quickly you learn (and what competition you play with). Do you play full ring or 6 max? If you play full ring, I wouldn't raise with TT in EP usually, although of course it depends on table texture. If you miss the flop with AK and are heads up, I would bet. If you are more than heads up, check/fold. If you miss and someone leads out, then usually fold. If they are good/weak then you can occasionally raise with a missed AK if you think they will test you, but lay down frequently.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yes, auto-call. Of course this (and every other unfortunate thing) has happened to me, but it is WAY outweighed by the stacks I have taken from the same idiots who are calling raises with crap.

[warlockjd]

with no reads on $25 I auto call here to a raise...crz you can fold more....20,000 hands or so should give you enough hands where youve seen 'everything'....maybe even 5-10k, but 20k is a big enough sample size that you will have a decent idea of your winrate too

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I do better playing pros or people who understand a little about poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how good players make money at the poker table.

edit: notice how i said 'good players' instead of 'we' or 'you'.

[theredpill]

ED, what is your problem ?

Who is "we" ?

Worstplayer said he's been playing NL for 2 months. I've been playing NL for about 7 months but most of that time was spent in tourneys , MTT and SNG's.

Ed,

So would you like to correct me, motherfucker ? No, just chime in like a dumbass and leave . Probably like how you play on a poker table.

I think you have a misunderstanding of poker. Playing at the NL $5/10 is very different than playing .05/.10 NL. Just because you were king at $5/$10 doesn't mean you can make money your first day back down at .05/.10. People play differently. They play differently from site to site, too. You'll see a hell of a lot more bluffing at Party than Paradise and Absolute.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
Warlock said he's been playing NL for 2 months.

[/ QUOTE ]


Um, not sure where that came from, but its probably been a little over a year. With a 2 month hiatus while i was in Vegas. And except for the first month, exclusively Party $100 NL 6max.

Personal history aside, Ed is trying to tell you that you will always make the most money off of people who know the least about poker. If that's not the case, you aren't adjusting to the game condititions correctly.

Also, in the future, calling someone that is trying to help you a motherfucker probably won't elicit much further help.

I know the boat you're in tho, I used to think all 2+2ers were cocky assholes until I started learning stuff here, then my mind changed/opened.

[edtost]

i never claimed to be any good, myself. but if you cannot see that playing against a table full of people who have no idea what they're doing is like a wet dream, you will never succeed at higher levels, no matter how technically 'correct' your play is.

edit: there was a period of time when i played low stakes party nl, mostly nl50 6max at the time. i know the players at those games are different than those at higher stakes. i was referring solely to your comment about how you'd rather play against people who have an understanding of poker or who are pros, which is just plain wrong. when someone who plays like a pp nl25 idiot sits at a 2-5 game with me, i jizz myself, i don't go looking for a game with more pros. the fundamental theorem of poker is a powerful concept.

also, i never claimed to be the king of 5-10nl. i would be a fish in games of that size most of the time. but game selection and bankroll are wonderful things.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think he meant me (who really has only been playing for 2 months) and mistakenly said you.

[theredpill]

yeah, I mean worstplayer.

Ok, I can play against good players on Paradise and Absolute. But how do I adjust to Party ? I can't adjust. I suppose I have to identify who doesn't know what they are doing and start playing for "the long run" ? Putting them all-in when they are on their gut shot straight draws, etc ? YOu're right, I'm definitely not adjusting. Also, do you guys ever end the night having lost a little money ?

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
So VPIP 15 % , raise with few hands, don't call raises with A Q or weaker and you think I will be ok on party ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually there are 3 betting rounds to follow...

[ QUOTE ]

I play with a VPIP of around 30 % on other sites and do ok so I have to become a completely different player on party. It is wierd. I guess I do better playing pros or people who understand a little about poker.


[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Man, tonight just leaves me shaking my head in amazement. Some guy called off $8 preflop with 8 5 and hit two pair to crack KK . Another guy called off $10 preflop with K 9 to hit a full house to crack AA . This is on $.25/.50 Full ring NL at Party. ??? I don't know. I can't put the plays into words.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, [censored] happens.

[warlockjd]

Here is what to do:

1. Tighten up

2. Tighten up

3. Tighten up

4. Call raises only with premium hands, unless you have a great read that villain is a maniac

5 Play ABC poker.

Post many more specific hands here

[edtost]

now you're talking. the long run is your friend, and losing sessions happen. remember to make their implied odds bad, not jus the pot odds you give them immediately. i suggest studying TOP.

edit: oh, and definately post hands. the regular crew here is a lot more friendly than i, especially when confronted with specific hands. studying the archives wouldn't hurt either. they're a goldmine.

good luck.

[Biff M.]

You are so not getting the fundamentals.

1. Have an adequate bankroll for your purpose.
2. Read Theory of Poker and Small stakes hold 'em 5 times.
3. Change your behavior and attitude towards the game and the players.

[edtost]

SSH would be a BAD IDEA at this point. a good second book to TOP would be reuben and caffione's book on nl and pl.

also, thouroughly studying and reading through multiple times are not even close to the same thing. one needs to understand the concepts behind what is written, not have ever page memorized.

i think (3) has started.

[theredpill]

Anything in Reuben's and Caffione's about NL ring play ? I was going to get Harrington on Hold'em but someone said it wouldn't help my NL ring play. I have TOP but I've barely read any of it. Maybe I will read more. I've already read ITH by Matthew Hilger and WLLHE by Lee Jones. I have Small Stakes Hold'em but I skipped to the post flop play parts and read those.

[Biff M.]

Oh yeah, I guess you're right. Haven't read that one myself yet, I need some time to absorb the other books first. I still think SSH has a good deal of useful stuff, you just have to consider the basic differences between NL & FL and take it for what it is.

[edtost]

there's some useful stuff in ssh, but figuring out how it applies to nl requires a certain amount of experience and way too much thinking, imo. ssh, for limit players, is hard enough for beginners to grasp.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
If you miss and someone leads out, then usually fold. If they are good/weak then you can occasionally raise with a missed AK if you think they will test you, but lay down frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]
At Party NL25/6max. a lot of players will test you with stupid minbets or up to $2. I almost always raised with any crappy holding to potsize and almost always earned the pot immediately. I consider folding here as weak. It just has to work more than 50% and that's an easy proposition.
At NL50/6max. I miss those guys.

[edtost]

R+C is an older book about nl ring concepts, meaning that there are sections on nl draw and pl stud (i think) in addition to holdem. but there are some great things in there, especially concerning stack size.

[theredpill]

Then I definitely need to get R + C . I have been unable to find it anywhere and have never even seen what it looks like. Barnes and Noble had never heard of it. I tired of wasting my time reading limit books. I've read limit books and hate limit and play NL. No wonder I'm having trouble.

[edtost]

r+c (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966100719/qid=1106484797/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-0332736-8452124)

[theredpill]

Ok, I just found it. I should be able to order it and get it in the next few weeks. What about No Limit Hold'em by McEvoy and Daughtery ("The new Players guide to winning ......")? Not good ? I don't want to buy more books than I care to read, though. In the meantime, I'll open up Theory of Poker.

[edtost]

i don't know that one. mason has a book review thread hidden somewhere in the books+software forum, try searching for it.

[pho75]

You're right about TOP. I've read at LEAST 5 times. You suggest SSH? Isn't that a limit book? Not that you can't learn something from a limit book. I did looked at it in the bookstore when it first came out but thought much of it didn't apply to no-limit. I'm interested in why you rate it so hightly for it's no-limit content. Perhaps I missed something.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I do better playing pros or people who understand a little about poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how good players make money at the poker table.

edit: notice how i said 'good players' instead of 'we' or 'you'.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=491819&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=all&vc=1) comes to mind.

[Biff M.]

I think a lot of the content transfers very well to NL as well, but you are allowed to disagree. Not the book you want if you're looking for NL betting/raising strategies, but it touches a lot of general topics. As I browse through it now, I really don't see many sections that are exclusively limit.

[Burno]

[ QUOTE ]
Then I definitely need to get R + C . I have been unable to find it anywhere and have never even seen what it looks like. Barnes and Noble had never heard of it. I tired of wasting my time reading limit books. I've read limit books and hate limit and play NL. No wonder I'm having trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, it's cuz you haven't had this one book.



Seriously dude, and I am speaking from personal experience here. Get over yourself, and quit blaming everything else for your lack of success at poker. I'm sure you are a smart kid. Most people here are. And so you think to yourself, I play better and smarter than them and therefore I deserve to win.

I think once you make this adjustment you'll start to see everything else start to fall into place.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, how many years do I need under my belt to be considered "experienced" NL player ? How many years do you guys have under your belts ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Less than one.

I've played like 300,000 hands of NL SNGs and ring combined though.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you miss and someone leads out, then usually fold. If they are good/weak then you can occasionally raise with a missed AK if you think they will test you, but lay down frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]
At Party NL25/6max. a lot of players will test you with stupid minbets or up to $2. I almost always raised with any crappy holding to potsize and almost always earned the pot immediately. I consider folding here as weak. It just has to work more than 50% and that's an easy proposition.
At NL50/6max. I miss those guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah there was a thread a while back where someone bet $1 into me on a whatever flop and I had AA, I of course raised to $5, and then was mini raised to $9, I was shown down two pair and lose, but then I made it a point to no matter what raise the flop when someone mini bets into me and they would basically fold 9/10x

Mini bets into you on the flop after you raise preflop = weakkkkkkkk

[Wayfare]

Theredpill, I am in a helpful mood at the moment and so please listen to what I am telling you:

These boards are filled with people who want to help you. However, you are so busy with fighting with posters who you think are "dissing" you that you don't get anything accomplished poker wise. You need to stop focusing on anything but the process behind your decisions. Stop talking about how you got bad beat. Stop talking about "pros" at the .25/.5 level. It destroys the possibility that you will get constructive advice.

You must change your philosophy towards the game and end this explosive emotional attachment you have towards every single session (or even hand) before you can make the correct decisions in the long run.

Buy poker tracker, play 5,000 hands logged on it, and then we can talk about your VP$IP, PFR, call raise %, etc. That's where you really seem to be losing money.

Believe me, if you continue down the path you are on these boards, then you will never significantly improve. You played very well at the 2+2 table -- I don't see any reason other than the ones listed above you couldn't be a very winning player.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
You played very well at the 2+2 table --

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he was there... someone claimed to be him as a joke I think and then told us who they really were. The only way he could have been there is if he was at one of the other tables.

[Sephus]

i swear i did "<----- Sephus" like four or five times at least. the way pill bitches about money and playing against "pros" i dont know why you believed he'd be on a $50 2+2 table. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[theredpill]

LOL....that definitely wasn't me. Funny, though. I find this pretty funny, actually.

Well, until I read some more books. Theory of Poker, and the Reuben and Caffione book, I'm not playing $25 NL at Party. The games are just too tough. Too many people trying to steal pots/blinds. Too many pros. I'll just stay on other sites. Unbelievable how bad it has gotten, though and I don't understand how you guys make money on Party. I really don't. Why someone would want to play against other pros is beyond me.

Burno, were you being sarcastic when you said I needed that book ?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm sorry, but I really can't stop myself from responding to your continued posts about the "pros" on Party NL25. There are probably ~10 pros on NL25 (meaning people who live off of playing poker alone) and I can guarantee you that you never have two of those pros at the same table. Everyone else there is just a hacker like you and me and 99% of them are absolutely terrible which is why hackers like us can make a decent amount of money off of them on a regular basis. Please never use the word "pro" again in a post unless you played in the WW2+2 against real pros and those are the people you are talking about. Thank you.

[Burno]

Indeed I was. Re-read my post.

And as entertaining as it is, please stop talking about the Party 25NL pros. Party 25 is a donk farm. A typical table consists of three donkeys, 4 outright clowns, 1 guy with his head up his ass, some dude who has a clue, and me.

Move down, get some experience, make less complaint posts and more content posts and you could easily be crushing Party 25 in a couple months. But you need to re-align your whole perspective here, bra.

[JoeC]

Quit playing the ring games and play 6max. I'm sorry but until you do that you're throwing away untold thousands (hundreds?) of dollars.

[Sephus]

wrong. 6max is not for everyone, at every time.

[njc2o]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not playing $25 NL at Party. The games are just too tough. Too many people trying to steal pots/blinds. Too many pros. I'll just stay on other sites. Unbelievable how bad it has gotten, though and I don't understand how you guys make money on Party. I really don't. Why someone would want to play against other pros is beyond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The games aren't tough. I'm a full time student, i play for an hour or two a night probably 3-4 days a week and i just bought myself a new computer just for fall quarter. There aren't pros. There are college students and guys like you just [censored] around. If they're 'pro', they're definitely trying to build up their roll and move up in levels.

Just tighten up, fundamental theorem of poker, always. [censored] always the theorem

[JoeC]

Why not? It seems like fish are attracted like flies to this game. If you were trying to play poker to make serious money, why wouldn't you switch over to 6max?

I guess in the short run if your game is too tight for the 6max you should play ring. But in the long run, a player should probably adapt and switch... I don't see why not.

[theredpill]

Man, those games are the toughest games I've ever played. 6 max and full ring. Both are by far the toughest .25/.50 games I've ever played. Toughest poker games I've ever played in general, actually. I've never played $1/2 NL . I've played 5/10 limit a long time ago and got my ass handed to me there, too.

You can't tell me those games are easier than Live Limit games in a B & M .

Ok, whos' the next "Hey, I just started playing last week and made a grand in my first week" guy to come by and say something ?

[Sephus]

because a player with holes in his game (no offense intended) will do worse at 6max.

he's not throwing away thousands of dollars if he isn't beating the game. i'm not saying i dont prefer 6max (i only play it) i'm just saying you assume too much.

[Sephus]

just so you know i have a pretty solid winrate at NL50 over my last 25k or so hands but i am just breaking even pokerwise over my last, id say, 40-50 hours (if i were 1 tabling). it takes a long time to find out approximately how much you're getting (or giving up) to the game.

[theredpill]

well, I'm going down to the kiddie tables and making $10/ day for the rest of my life and not coming back. I want to be paid 25 BB on my top pair of aces over and over and over again.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Seriously, I think you should give up poker and get a normal job. You would be less frustrated and would contribute more to society.

[theredpill]

you kicking me out of 2 + 2 community ?

[Biff M.]

Get Pokertracker and use it. Log 20,000 hands and see how it looks.

[wbrumfiel]

How about trying limit? I mean you win less but you also lose less when your big hand gets cracked. Buy SSHE, read it, and play. Then when your bankroll is bigger come back to NL.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
How about trying limit? I mean you win less but you also lose less when your big hand gets cracked. Buy SSHE, read it, and play. Then when your bankroll is bigger come back to NL.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good Idea, 2/4 limit is a goldmine for a tight player.
But on the other hand theredpill is a player who...
[ QUOTE ]
fart, [censored], belch, drink beer, steal women's purses, [censored] on the toilet, punch people in faces. I'm one of those guys. Have fun with pottery, dude.


[/ QUOTE ]
and I don't think these kind of players are willing to sit at a full limit table and see one flop every orbit.

[theredpill]

[ QUOTE ]

Good Idea, 2/4 limit is a goldmine for a tight player.


[/ QUOTE ]

2/4 is a goldmine where ? I was playing limit yesterday for 30 minutes. .50/1.00 actually. Lost $50. Poker deficit =
1000001
1000002
1000003
1000004
1000005
1000006
1000007
1000008
1000009
1000010
1000011
1000012
1000013
1000014
1000015
1132389
1329822
1442380
1508908
1600908
2038922
4899081
5898081
6089822

[wbrumfiel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good Idea, 2/4 limit is a goldmine for a tight player.


[/ QUOTE ]

2/4 is a goldmine where ? I was playing limit yesterday for 30 minutes. .50/1.00 actually. Lost $50. Poker deficit =
1000001
1000002
1000003
1000004
1000005
1000006
1000007
1000008
1000009
1000010
1000011
1000012
1000013
1000014
1000015
1132389
1329822
1442380
1508908
1600908
2038922
4899081
5898081
6089822

[/ QUOTE ]
you lost 50BB in 30 mins at a limit table? Maybe you should give up poker /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Just out of curiosity, what was your VPIP for those 30 minutes?

[wbrumfiel]

probably about 90%

[theredpill]

I was playing 3 tables.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
2/4 is a goldmine where ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4
http://img184.exs.cx/img184/628/screenhunter0027mb.jpg
work of ~2 month

[theredpill]

wow,

2 months ? damn. 1- tabling ? The tables I played on were tight as hell. I had a nice run and had soon doubled up but the other 2 tables were doing badly. It was frustrating. I folded a lot but for some reason I couldn't win on the other 2 tables. Then when I'd get a hand , everyone would fold.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
wow,

2 months ? damn. 1- tabling ? The tables I played on were tight as hell. I had a nice run and had soon doubled up but the other 2 tables were doing badly. It was frustrating. I folded a lot but for some reason I couldn't win on the other 2 tables. Then when I'd get a hand , everyone would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
3-4 tabling

[soah]

I've read SSHE and HPFAP twice and I can't beat party $1/$2 limit to save my life.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
The tables I played on were tight as hell. I had a nice run and had soon doubled up but the other 2 tables were doing badly. It was frustrating. I folded a lot but for some reason I couldn't win on the other 2 tables. Then when I'd get a hand , everyone would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
You played 30 minutes and it was frustrating?
Did you consider to chose a more relaxing hobby than Poker?

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read SSHE and HPFAP twice and I can't beat party $1/$2 limit to save my life.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe opposition has changed, but when I played 1/2 in March/April it was juicy and when I moved up to 2/4 I found it even to be softer. 3/6 and up is a different story.
FWIW, I read some limit threads in which people complain VPIP in limit games is decreasing.

[theredpill]

I think it has changed. Jesus, man, it was a year ago ? Of course it has changed. Sorry but I think it has. I sat down with Gus Hansen and Barry Greenstein at the .50/1.00 tables.

[amoeba]

those 2 play very different styles.

[Biff M.]

They were both there, though.

[soah]

There's still plenty of terrible play. But I just can't take advantage of the mistakes I see. I can never put anyone on a hand. People play the nuts the same as they play bottom pair. Seriously.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
There's still plenty of terrible play. But I just can't take advantage of the mistakes I see. I can never put anyone on a hand. People play the nuts the same as they play bottom pair. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is SO weird coming from you. If I had to make a guess, I would say you are one of the top NL players who posts on here regularly so the only thing I can think is that you haven't yet been able to make the necessary mental shift for limit play. On a fundamental level, limit is the same as no limit, it is just that the implied odds are very different so the strategies are different for getting the proper number of bets into the pot at the right time. I honestly do not believe that if you read the limit forum on here and played a few hours of limit per day that you could not beat these games. I'm actually thinking of trying to get back into some limit play. We could make a go of it together and then I won't feel like the only idiot posting basic hands on the limit forum here.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Also, this thread is going to get the flame, soon, which I think is extremely ironic.

[soah]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results
MP1 has 3c 2c (two pair, threes and twos).
Hero has Ac Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins 7.75 BB.

I can't win.

[soah]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results
Hero has Ad Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
UTG+1 has 3h Qd (flush, king high).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 7 BB.
---------------

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

River: (2.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Results
SB has Kd 8s (two pair, eights and sevens).
Hero has 2h 2d (full house, twos full of sevens).
MP1 has 8h 8c (full house, eights full of sevens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 5.50 BB.

I am so outclassed...

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm not sure you should bet that river. And you can just read through this thread or any other thread by TRP to see how HE can't win at NL. I know I don't need to tell you this, but guys who call raises with 32s heads up will give you money over time. Just be thankful he didn't c/r that river (which probably would have been a good play.)