How sick is LeBron James

[johnnybeef]

2nd triple double in 3 nights, and hes not even a month past 20 years old, unbeleivable!

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
How sick is LeBron James

[/ QUOTE ]
Did he get the flu or something? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[johnnybeef]

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[ QUOTE ]
How sick is LeBron James

[/ QUOTE ]
Did he get the flu or something? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lame

[Richard Tanner]

I'm sure you or I could do half of that if we got as many shots as he does, and we aren't half the player. I really dislike the Iverson/Kobe/James types that take fourty shots a night and score 30 points on average. Alot of pros can do that. Granted their skill helps them get these shots, but when your job discription is "Backbone of the Team" high scores/lots of shots are required.

Cody

[snowbank]

I'm sure you or I could do half of that if we got as many shots as he does, and we aren't half the player.

Great point /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you or I could do half of that if we got as many shots as he does, and we aren't half the player. I really dislike the Iverson/Kobe/James types that take fourty shots a night and score 30 points on average. Alot of pros can do that. Granted their skill helps them get these shots, but when your job discription is "Backbone of the Team" high scores/lots of shots are required.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously you dont watch a lot of basketball

[nothumb]

You must be joking.

Triple double = assists and rebounds too, excelling in all facets of the game...

Lebron is having an amazing year.

NT

[Richard Tanner]

Ok let's try it this way. If you or I were put in his spot and told to take 40 shots, we could hopefully make at least half of his pts. (unless basketball isn't your thing). Does that mean we're the NBAs savior. I doubt it.
Not that he isn't a good player, but I just happen to think that these guys are a little over rated. Give alot of player's their amount of shots and I would think they could do well.

Cody

[DontRaisePlz]

LeBron is shooting at a 49% clip, the best for an alpha dog scoring guard since MJ.

In today's NBA, making half your shots in the field is unheard of for anyone taking 15 shots a game at the 2 or the 3 position. Watch some hoops before you judge.

[Richard Tanner]

Again, do I think he's a great player, of course. But how many other players could do what he does (I actually believe that the answer to this is more than none). He isn't Basketball's version of Jesus. Pick someone else on the Cavs with a resonable amount of talent and give him the attempts that LeBron gets.

Cody

[tolbiny]

Just so you know-
Half of the Cavs are averaging more points than at any previous point in their careers- so apparently James isn't the only one taking the shots.
(ps- 1/3 or the triple double is assists- how many players are averaging >7 assists per game?)

[Richard Tanner]

Your right I must not watch the NBA to have a dissenting opinion. That is so tired.
"Tom Brady sucks"
"Watch some Football"
"A-Rod sucks"
"Watch some baseball"

Crist, rating would be astronomical if everyone who apparently isn't watching sports tuned in.

Cody

[DontRaisePlz]

This is retarded. At least look at the stats. He's making HALF HIS SHOTS! That's what Kevin Garnett is doing.

Why are you still posting?

[istewart]

No one on the Cavs has close to his talent, and not one of them could score like he does. Comparing Iverson (who is having a premier year himself, but in general) to James is silly. The numbers don't lie.

[DontRaisePlz]

I really dislike the Iverson/Kobe/James types that take fourty shots a night and score 30 points on average.

This statement proves you don't watch any basketball. Kobe and AI don't make nearly as a great a percentage of their shots that LeBron does.

[Richard Tanner]

Oh I agree that he's a great player, stated above. I will grant you that I think he raises his teams game, which is why I think he's great. I just think think that the oppertunities he is granted allow his stats to become inflated (must like Iverson, who wasn't the next Jordan that some thought he would be).

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

Again, damn I wish I tuned in more. Of course I watch games all the time, what will it take to get everyone to agree to stop using that phrase.

Cody

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Your right I must not watch the NBA to have a dissenting opinion. That is so tired.
"Tom Brady sucks"
"Watch some Football"
"A-Rod sucks"
"Watch some baseball"

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? Your arguement is just as dumb as the Brady or A-Rod sucks ones.

[snowbank]

Ok let's try it this way. If you or I were put in his spot and told to take 40 shots, we could hopefully make at least half of his pts. (unless basketball isn't your thing). Does that mean we're the NBAs savior. I doubt it.

Cody,

The best player(lebron) is defended by the best defender, as well as having a whole defensive scheme to stop the best player. If you gave a random guard on the Cavs the attempts Lebron is getting and had their best defender and a scheme to stop him, they would be lucky to average 12-15.

[DontRaisePlz]

If a guy makes half his friggin shots, aren't his opportunies WARRANTED?

[nothumb]

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Your right I must not watch the NBA to have a dissenting opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you might watch it, you just don't know sh<font color="purple"></font>it.

Who cares if people are hyping the kid up? Just because people are on the bandwagon doesn't mean you can't see the facts for what they are. He's an amazing player and he's helping his team win. That's the point of the game. He gets a lot of attempts, makes a great percentage of them, and also gets assists and helps create opportunities for his teammates. What exactly is the problem?

NT

[Richard Tanner]

"Why are you still posting? "

Slow Night, just take a step back and let you BP drop back down. No need to get so worked up. If it will stop your stress, I'm wrong. In fact, I'm going to send LeBron a card atoning for my sins.

It's just an online forum, state your opinion, debate, it's all good. Just check the "Your a dumbass, and anyone like you has an IQ of 40" [censored] at the door.

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

Agreed, that was the "Granted their skill helps them get these shots" part of my first post.

Cody

[jakethebake]

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It's just an online forum, state your opinion, debate, it's all good. Just check the "Your a dumbass, and anyone like you has an IQ of 40" [censored] at the door.


[/ QUOTE ]
That's oot n00b.

[Richard Tanner]

Oh well, I guess they all can't be winners.

Cody

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, do I think he's a great player, of course. But how many other players could do what he does (I actually believe that the answer to this is more than none). He isn't Basketball's version of Jesus. Pick someone else on the Cavs with a resonable amount of talent and give him the attempts that LeBron gets.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

stats via cnnsi.com, he went 13 for 23 from the field tonight, thats over 50% and no where near 40 shots, he also had 12 rebounds and 10 assists. this is what is known as a triple double because he has 3 stats in double digits on the evening. a triple double in basket ball is a somewhat rare feat. Two nights ago LB got his first one. By doing so he became the youngest player (by about 3 months if im not mistaken...Lamar odom was 20 yrs. and 3 months i believe) in the history of the world to record such a feat. Two nights later, he goes out and pulls off another one. So nevermind how many players on the cavs could do what he does, lets talk about how many players in NBA history could do what he does. The answer of course is zero.

[DontRaisePlz]

No, you imply that LeBron jacks many shots and that some of them have to go in.

If you watched the NBA, you'd know that LeBron puts up 9/16 and 8/15 field stats day in and day out.

Look at his gamelog and find one 12/35 performance, you won't find any.

As a sports enthuiast and debater, what's alarming isn't your "LeBron bashing", it's your discrimination against a player who doesn't at all fit a description of what you deem as "overrated".

[Richard Tanner]

So you would say that LeBron is the best player in the history of the NBA then?

Cody

[tolbiny]

I think you are way overestimating the average NBA player (and yourself) when talking about Lebron. Give the average NBA player 40 shots a game and sure he scores 20-30 everynight... untill the other team get tired of hi scoring that much and increases the defensive pressure a little bit. Then his stats fall off into the abyss.
Ohh yeah- and lebron is averaging 49% from the field- so if he were taking 40 shots a game he would be scoring 50 points per game, as it is he is scoring 24 points off of about 22 shots per game.

[johnnybeef]

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So you would say that LeBron is the best player in the history of the NBA then?

Cody

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No he hasn't even played in two full seasons yet. He is however having the best beginning of a career in NBA history.

[nothumb]

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Pick someone else on the Cavs with a resonable amount of talent

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Okay, there's your first problem... (not to say they don't have some good role players... but who is their next best shooter? Probably either Snow or the tall European guy. Go tell Coach to give them 30+ attempts per game. Just wear a raincoat for when he spits out his soda laughing at you...)

Sure, you could give a lot of people that many attempts. They'd score 15 a game, everyone would hate their guts, and you'd lose 60 games. Sweet idea. A ridiculous hypothetical like that doesn't make any sense at all.

If so many pros could take that many shots per game and make half, why don't they?

NT

[tolbiny]

He is by far the best 20 yr old in the history of the NBA- i would bo as far to say he is the best 2nd year player in the history of the NBA- but i don't know much about the players from prior to 1990.

[Richard Tanner]

I suppose I am overestimating the average player. In my mind I was thinking more of the top one or two on each team, but looking back I did a really bad job of stating that. Point taken. Again I think he's good, but best of all time (as some, but not yourself have asserted) is hard for me to believe.

That said, how did you manage to point out something in a post with out being rude. Is it something in your water. I read your post and it stated you opinion without (alot) of scarcasm. So naturally I read it again to be sure, and just as I thought nothing. How do you do it.

[mmbt0ne]

Please tell me who you would rather have run a team than LeBron right now. LeBron's a stud, he will continue to be a stud, hell, he will probably redefine the word stud as we know it. Give some of us his attempts in an intramural game and I doubt anyone can go for his kind of stats.

[Richard Tanner]

Not everyone can do it, and after that there aren't enough shots in a game for everyone to get a ton. You take your best player and give him the ball. For the Cavs, that's LeBron, no question. My point was that there are other players who shoot well and could do that shooting. As for his other stats and how he lifts his team, well that's why I said he was a great player.

Cody

[tolbiny]

"It's just an online forum, state your opinion, debate, it's all good. Just check the "Your a dumbass, and anyone like you has an IQ of 40" [censored] at the door."

Half the fun of this forum is beingable to call someone a dingle berry- secodly strong laguage is often called for to make a strong point- dingle-berry.
Thirdly, half the fun of this forum is being able to call someone a dingleberry.
I know i know, once i blocked Jakethebake, but i unblocked him when i realized all the fun i was missing out on. Actually its been great to see him grow as a poster, his writing style has improved a bit, and he backs up some of his staements now. I think hes a credit to oot.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Please tell me who you would rather have run a team than LeBron right now. LeBron's a stud, he will continue to be a stud, hell, he will probably redefine the word stud as we know it. Give some of us his attempts in an intramural game and I doubt anyone can go for his kind of stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

all i have to say about this is...WORD!

[istewart]

If Jordan hadn't gotten injured his first two years would've been way better than James'. That's not to take away from James, but the beginning of his career isn't the best ever. And he won't be as good as Jordan was. Ever. Everytime people say this -- whether it be Kobe, Hill, Hardaway -- it fails to become true.

[holeplug]

LeBron isn't really the same type of player that Jordan was though. His game is more similar to a point foward ala Magic.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
My point was that there are other players who shoot well and could do that shooting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, who? With the best defender on the other team guarding them, and a defensive scheme designed to stop them?

NT

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you or I could do half of that if we got as many shots as he does, and we aren't half the player. I really dislike the Iverson/Kobe/James types that take fourty shots a night and score 30 points on average. Alot of pros can do that. Granted their skill helps them get these shots, but when your job discription is "Backbone of the Team" high scores/lots of shots are required.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

LeBron has only attempted 30 shots in a game once this season. Every other game has been less than that. So I don't know where your getting the 40 shots a game thing from.

[Richard Tanner]

You don't think any other person could shoot that well. I would think alot of Center's could do it (they tend to shoot better due to proximity anyway).

[mmbt0ne]

Pointswise, no doubt. He went for almost 40 a game in his 3rd year, coming off that injury. I don't think he was a complete enough player to have the assists and rebounds that LeBron is putting up though. Yes, he definitely did later on, he went 32.5/8/8 in his 5th year, but I don't think he was ready to play team ball his first 2 years. Also, he was 21 when he came into the league, and LBJ jut turned 20, that's what's even more amazing to me.

[Richard Tanner]

I think we've covered this already, but if not, I overstated his amount of shots. Also, I'd like to announce here and now that I want to have his baby.
Seriously, I think he's great, but I think if you put him in a team like the Lakers, he wouldn't fare as well haveing to split shots with Kobe (Yes they play similar positions, just a hypothetical).

[realwtf]

Michael Jordan shot under 50% for his career. He is probably the most overrated player EVAR.

[Richard Tanner]

I would agree that he's a little (Read: Grain of Salt little) overrated as his team was more talented. However, "most of all time", damn.

Cody

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, damn I wish I tuned in more. Of course I watch games all the time, what will it take to get everyone to agree to stop using that phrase.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not comparing a 20 yr. old LeBron who's ceiling as an all-around NBA player is as high as anyone's in 10+ years to AI would be a start.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
If Jordan hadn't gotten injured his first two years would've been way better than James'. That's not to take away from James, but the beginning of his career isn't the best ever. And he won't be as good as Jordan was. Ever. Everytime people say this -- whether it be Kobe, Hill, Hardaway -- it fails to become true.

[/ QUOTE ]

the thing that set jordan apart was his drive to be the best. he was the most intense competetor this world professional american sports has seen. im not sure if LB will be as determined as MJ. Only time will tell. Another point that needs brought up is that LB's game is more like that of Magic Johnson's than MJ's.

[DontRaisePlz]

Blah blah blah.

You keep stating about how you know LeBron is a great player but you lost everyone when you vindicated LeBron to the category of "lone dog shooting guard who takes 40 shots a game". That's clearly wrong and since you concede to this, you don't really have a point anymore.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we've covered this already, but if not, I overstated his amount of shots. Also, I'd like to announce here and now that I want to have his baby.
Seriously, I think he's great, but I think if you put him in a team like the Lakers, he wouldn't fare as well haveing to split shots with Kobe (Yes they play similar positions, just a hypothetical).

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong. The thing that sets LB apart is his ability to do anything the team needs to get a win. If LB were to play along side Kobe as a Laker, Kobe's game would be all that much more elevated.

[Richard Tanner]

Okay I don't have a point, excuse me while I go out side in the snow and stand in sack cloth to make up for such an incorrect viewpoint.
Whew ya know I actually feel better. Can we all go to bed now.

Cody

[istewart]

Jordan had tougher competition than LeBron does as well.

[Richard Tanner]

But do you think that he could accept a number two roll next to Kobe, or do you think that it would be Kobe taking a step back. Obviously this won't happen, but which do you think it would be (assuming Kobe's favor with the Lakers front office doesn't take over).

Cody

[nothumb]

I'm saying who would you put on Lebron's team, in his situation, that could do what he does. Not who in a hypothetical alternate universe could do it.

Same thing with your Lebron-and-Kobe crap. Come on. Just admit that there are maybe five guys in the history of the game that could do what Lebron is doing with his team right now, and the others aren't wearing sneakers anymore.

To highlight the difference, look at what Kobe does with his team right now, and look at what Lebron is doing. Kobe is the last guy to come into the league with anything close to Lebron's potential, and look at what he's doing at the helm of a team. James is only 20 and he's twice as mature as Kobe will ever be.

NT

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Jordan had tougher competition than LeBron does as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd point to the rule changes and whatnot that have made it easier. No doubt that Lebron is a stud. I probably prefer Garnett over him for a team building for the short term, but that's about it.

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
But do you think that he could accept a number two roll next to Kobe, or do you think that it would be Kobe taking a step back. Obviously this won't happen, but which do you think it would be (assuming Kobe's favor with the Lakers front office doesn't take over).

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he when he's better than Kobe. But that would never work since Kobe would just force him out like he did Phil Jackson and Shaq.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok let's try it this way. If you or I were put in his spot and told to take 40 shots, we could hopefully make at least half of his pts. (unless basketball isn't your thing).

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. And apparently you watch basketball judging from your adamantly stating yes below. I just watched Stanford/USC live and *no one* in the building could be inserted on *any* NBA team and average more than ~10 points with 40 shots a night (maybe that one guy Pruit would do better). On any given night many of them would get hot -- but getting off good shots consistently against the best bball players in the world and making them. Now, basketball isn't 'my thing' but I'm not awful and I probably couldn't get 10 pts *ever* in an NBA game if the D was trying. You wouldn't stand a *chance* unless you were very competitive in DI ball (or dominated DII or DIII).

[ QUOTE ]

Does that mean we're the NBAs savior. I doubt it.
Not that he isn't a good player, but I just happen to think that these guys are a little over rated. Give alot of player's their amount of shots and I would think they could do well.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is 'they' here because it seems like you were talking about Lebron. Well, very few NBA players could win a scoring title even with 40 shots/game -- they just wouldn't be able to score consistently enough. Iverson is unique in the sense that he can take tons of shots and has ability to make a lot of them even when defenses key in on him. This tends to end up a bad thing as he just takes the low % shots instead of looking for higher % shots (and not taking 40). BUT the 40 shots Iverson takes a night (and he doesn't even take 40/night) are at a higher % than just about any other player. Try to get just some random guy (or even a 2nd scoring option) to take 40 shots/night and his % will just completely plummet.

Lebron is very, very, very good. In fact, given his age, it would seem he *is* the best of all time. However, I doubt anyone would say he's surpassed MJ or even a handful of players in the NBA currently quite yet. Also, the most unique thing about Lebron is not his scoring, rebounding or ability to dunk -- it's his court vision/selflessness and passing. He seems to combine MJ and Magic, which no other 'next MJ' ever was able to do.

FWIW Kobe is the closest to MJ and he's very much a poor man's MJ b/c he doesn't make his teammates much better. Hell, I'll even go one further and say b/c of his significantly bigger hands he's better than MJ ever was without factoring teammates. Unfortunately for Kobe, there are 4 other guys he plays with.

Yugoslav