PARASITE POKER CLOSED MY Account

Hello PLAYBOY,


We are currently looking into a situation, and we would like your opinion on the action in the following hand. Please get back to us as soon as possible. We would also request that you stop playing at this time.


Regards,

Craig

Paradise Poker Support


www.ParadisePoker.com (http://www.ParadisePoker.com)


Game #176004738 - $10/$20 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:58:53 (CST)

Table "Bangkulu" [4252] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($129.00 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] PLAYB0Y ($799.00 in chips) -- playing

PLAYB0Y : Post Small Blind ($5)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($10)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ As ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ 9c ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ 6h ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ Kd ]

PLAYB0Y : Call ($5)

BillyGuy: Raise ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** FLOP *** : [ Qc 7c Qh ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** TURN *** : [ Qc 7c Qh ] [ 7s ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($20)

*** RIVER *** : [ Qc 7c Qh 7s ] [ 8c ]

BillyGuy: Fold

PLAYB0Y : Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $99 | Rake: $1

Board: [ Qc 7c Qh 7s 8c ]

BillyGuy lost $50 (folded) [ As 6h ] (two pair, queens and sevens)

PLAYB0Y bet $50, collected $99, net +$49 [ 9c Kd ] (two pair, queens and sevens)

Hello Simon,


Our Security Department has closed your account effective today based on the hands below. We will be sending a check for your funds shortly.


Regards,


Craig

Paradise Poker Support


www.ParadisePoker.com (http://www.ParadisePoker.com)


Game #176004961 - $10/$20 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:59:44 (CST)

Table "Bangkulu" [4252] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($108.00 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] PLAYB0Y ($818.00 in chips) -- playing

PLAYB0Y : Post Small Blind ($5)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($10)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ Jc ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ 9c ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ Ac ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ 4c ]

PLAYB0Y : Raise ($15)

BillyGuy: Raise ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** FLOP *** : [ Tc 2d 9s ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Raise ($20)

BillyGuy: Raise ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Raise ($20)

BillyGuy: Raise ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** TURN *** : [ Tc 2d 9s ] [ Ts ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($20)

*** RIVER *** : [ Tc 2d 9s Ts ] [ Jh ]

BillyGuy: Fold

PLAYB0Y : Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $199 | Rake: $1

Board: [ Tc 2d 9s Ts Jh ]

BillyGuy lost $100 (folded) [ Jc Ac ] (two pair, jacks and tens)

PLAYB0Y bet $100, collected $199, net +$99 [ 9c 4c ] (two pair, tens and nines)


Game #176004738 - $10/$20 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:58:53 (CST)

Table "Bangkulu" [4252] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($129.00 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] PLAYB0Y ($799.00 in chips) -- playing

PLAYB0Y : Post Small Blind ($5)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($10)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ As ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ 9c ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ 6h ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ Kd ]

PLAYB0Y : Call ($5)

BillyGuy: Raise ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** FLOP *** : [ Qc 7c Qh ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** TURN *** : [ Qc 7c Qh ] [ 7s ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($20)

*** RIVER *** : [ Qc 7c Qh 7s ] [ 8c ]

BillyGuy: Fold

PLAYB0Y : Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $99 | Rake: $1

Board: [ Qc 7c Qh 7s 8c ]

BillyGuy lost $50 (folded) [ As 6h ] (two pair, queens and sevens)

PLAYB0Y bet $50, collected $99, net +$49 [ 9c Kd ] (two pair, queens and sevens)


Game #176004575 - $10/$20 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:58:16 (CST)

Table "Bangkulu" [4252] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($179.00 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] PLAYB0Y ($350.00 in chips) -- playing

PLAYB0Y : Post Small Blind ($5)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($10)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ 6d ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ 5s ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ Ac ]

Dealt to PLAYB0Y [ Qc ]

PLAYB0Y : Raise ($15)

BillyGuy: Raise ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** FLOP *** : [ 2d 6h 4s ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($10)

*** TURN *** : [ 2d 6h 4s ] [ Js ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($20)

PLAYB0Y : Call ($20)

*** RIVER *** : [ 2d 6h 4s Js ] [ 7c ]

BillyGuy: Fold

PLAYB0Y : Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $119 | Rake: $1

Board: [ 2d 6h 4s Js 7c ]

BillyGuy lost $60 (folded) [ 6d Ac ] (a pair of sixes)

PLAYB0Y bet $60, collected $119, net +$59 [ 5s Qc ] (high card queen)

IMO, they might have thought you were laundering money. That seems like the only reason they would have done this. I'm certainly not saying you were.

Damn, no wonder you are so well respected. You can telepathically make your opponents fold winners.

Looks like you were set up my friend.

There was another post like this, concerning a good heads-up player, I believe.


With Paradise Poker just taking into account a few hands which seem odd, this is an effective way to get someone barred from there.


Have you any enemies?


MS Sunshine

who the hell launders money a few hundred dollars at a time through online poker? or are the sites just getting paranoid thinking that some kind of crackdown is coming?

IMO, it's not money laundering $100 at a time they're concerned with, it's credit card fraud.


While I doubt OBL is going to try to funnel a billion dollars towards domestic terrorists 4 BB at a time, it is not unrealistic to think that someone who has acquired a credit card through some less-than-legal means would try to run through a few thousand to a confederate and hope not to get caught.

I don't know Playboy, so this is not meant to be an attack on his integrity or character or anything. So Playboy don't take offense.


But looking solely at the posted hand histories, those hands look VERY fishy. Why would Billy stay in for all the action, and raising himself on several occasions, and then fold on the river when it is free to check. No player of any callibur at all would ever do that, and certainly not three hands in a row (they appear to be consecutive hands based on the time stamp - they are at least close in time).


So Playboy, what's your story? Was Billy really that bad? And if so, can you help me set up a heads-up match against him?


My initial reaction to these hands is that they look very fishy and I am not surprised Paradise thought the same.

This seems very strange , i 've seen you play on there site for years and i know u did very well there and were among the top players and respected by all.

Dont worry PLAYBOY my boys are working to help you out u always been there for me and we gonna help u out. That fixed site is gonna pay for what they did to u. Just for the record it was Playboy who referred me to this site 2 years ago and he has brought over 100 players to this site.


As of today i sent parasite poker a letter to close my account and my brother account, We'll take out action else where.


Dont play on paradise poker anymore .. better sites with better games out there.


In the long run paradise will pay big time for kicking playboy and flattop for doing nothing..


Paradise U suck!!!

If you search for a post by flat top you will find a hand history where Billy Guy mucks his hand first to act on the river in a couple of hands!


Could this be revenge of the fish????


A scam to get the sharks banned?

also, it happened on the same day!

Another player wanted you banned, so they created Billy Guy to make you look suspicious and give Paradise a reason to close your account.

Looks like someone had it in for you playboy. I'm sure u can make a new account and start playing agian. I dont understand why they would ban for those 3 hands u been playing on there site for awhile.

just for the record .. the people who dont know me, i been playing on there site since day 1. And i been averaging close to a 1000 hands per day on there site over this time. which works to around 500 in rake per day i was giving them. Not to mention all the players I brought in for other sites and the players who used to play live. I stood up for this site so many times , alot of people though they were fake but i showed my friends they do payout on time and are a solid site.. But now i lost all respect for there security department and already 6 of my friends quit this site. This site is money hungry and there are bettter sites to play on rake wise as far as 1 0n 1 games go. In the long run paradise will pay dearly for this mistake. there gonna be losing 2500 from me in rake per week . And my friends that quit is another 2000+ . so close 5000 per week they lost for a few hands that some guy screwed me on....


and billyguy thanks for your 200 dollars that u gave me. I hope it was worth it..


PLAYBOY

Well I must say I've watched you play and have learned a ton. Enough to survive a limited session with Eric123 on a 1/2 table (just him and I on the table). He left after I managed to claw my way back to even. I think he was drunk, but even against a drunk Eric123 I think that's pretty good!


Anyways, I've gone over my hand histories over the past week and have noticed some very strange attacks by groups of people. You would think they would pick up this obvious collusion. However, I now see where the focus is! Yikes.


Well I was going to go out quietly, but seeing your post has made me "come out". I actually closed my account last night. Seeing your post, I think I made the right decision.

Playboy i cant belive that paradise would close your account over such alittle thing, I'm gonna miss watching you play 1 0n 1 and crushing the other players. I've been a long time fan of yours and learned alot from you. You always been very helpful to me. And as of today i cashout my money from my account and will no longer play there. What sites are u playing on now?

yes these hands are very fishy . but i had no wrong doing. I dont why he kept folding the winning on the river. It makes no sense. I think he wanted paradise system to catch these hands and ban me from there site for tossing chips.


Just for the record he lost 200 dollars to me.

i've always mantained close to 20,000 in my account and passing 200 to my account wouldnt make sense.

On the first hand, last one on the list you have 350 in your stack. You win 59. What looks like the next game, you suddenly have 799. Why would you ask for more chips? How did you get to 799, if you don't mind me asking?

Foolish guy that you are, think about all the money thats not landing in your bank account, that will go from one fish to the next until the house has it. Nice try and good riddens! More money for me . =)


Jaime

http://www.twoplustwo.com/cgi-bin/newforums/inet.pl?read=31638


Internet Gambling


Paradise Closed Flat Top's Account


Posted By: Flat Top

Date: Tuesday, 16 April 2002, at 3:34 p.m.


Flat Top needs Sherlock Holmes.....


A not so funny thing happened to me at Paradise. I received the emails below:


************************************************** ************************************************


-----Original Message-----

From: Paradise Poker Support [mailto:support@paradisepoker.com]

Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 2:46 PM

Subject: Re: Flat Top


Hello Flat Top,


Our Security Department has closed your account effective today based on the hands below. We will be sending a check for your funds shortly.

Regards,


Craig

Paradise Poker Support

************************************************** ************************************************

Game #176001064 - $5/$10 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:44:39 (CST)

Table "Yasawa" [4048] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($386.50 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] Flat Top ($463.00 in chips) -- playing

Flat Top: Post Small Blind ($2)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($5)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ 4h ]

Dealt to Flat Top [ Qc ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ Td ]

Dealt to Flat Top [ Ks ]

Flat Top: Raise ($8)

BillyGuy: Raise ($10)

Flat Top: Call ($5)

*** FLOP *** : [ Tc 6s 5d ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($5)

Flat Top: Call ($5)

*** TURN *** : [ Tc 6s 5d ] [ Jc ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

Flat Top: Call ($10)

*** RIVER *** : [ Tc 6s 5d Jc ] [ Kc ]

BillyGuy: Fold

Flat Top: Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $59 | Rake: $1

Board: [ Tc 6s 5d Jc Kc ]

BillyGuy lost $30 (folded) [ 4h Td ] (a pair of tens)

Flat Top bet $30, collected $59, net +$29 [ Qc Ks ] (a pair of kings)

************************************************** ************************************************

Game #176002532 - $5/$10 Hold'em (1-on-1) - 2002/04/11-15:50:13 (CST)

Table "Yasawa" [4048] (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat # 4: [] BillyGuy ($193.00 in chips) -- playing

Seat # 7: [] Flat Top ($648.00 in chips) -- playing

Flat Top: Post Small Blind ($2)

BillyGuy: Post Big Blind ($5)

Dealt to BillyGuy [ 5h ]

Dealt to Flat Top [ Qs ]

Dealt to BillyGuy [ Th ]

Dealt to Flat Top [ Td ]

Flat Top: Raise ($8)

BillyGuy: Raise ($10)

Flat Top: Call ($5)

*** FLOP *** : [ Js 5d 8c ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($5)

Flat Top: Call ($5)

*** TURN *** : [ Js 5d 8c ] [ 7d ]

BillyGuy: Bet ($10)

Flat Top: Call ($10)

*** RIVER *** : [ Js 5d 8c 7d ] [ As ]

BillyGuy: Fold

Flat Top: Winner -- doesn't show cards

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $59 | Rake: $1

Board: [ Js 5d 8c 7d As ]

BillyGuy lost $30 (folded) [ 5h Th ] (a pair of fives)

Flat Top bet $30, collected $59, net +$29 [ Qs Td ] (high card ace)

************************************************** ************************************************

This was my Reply


Hi Craig,


I'm a little confused about your actions. Why did you close my account? What

do you think I did wrong? What do the two hands you sent to me represent to

you? Personally I'm baffled. I probably play a thousand hands a day? How can two hands be

relevant? Two hands out of a thousand seems like an insignificant sample size.

If I am reading the game below correctly, it appears that BillyGuy folded a pair of tens on the River

without any action. If this is the case then:


A. He hit the wrong button.

B. He knows I have a Pair of Kings.

C. He is trying to play weird. To get you to close my account.


Who is this BillyGuy? How long has he been an active player? I don't remember him. How many hands

did we play together that session?


If another player's action determines your decision. That is a scary thought.


It means if someone knows your policy and they don't like a particular player they can play in a

suspicious fashion in order to can get that player's account closed.


For the life of me I cannot figure out what your Security Department thinks is going on. If you think the guy

is dumping money to me there would be a bet and call on the river.


If you think he knows what my cards are then why would you close my account?


I have been a good customer. I deserve an explanation.


Flat Top

************************************************** ************************************************

And there reply back to me.

-----Original Message-----

From: Paradise Poker Support [mailto:support@paradisepoker.com]

Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:17 AM

Subject: Re: Flat Top


Hello,


Our Security Department's policy is not to divulge information that it uses to make account closure decisions.


We will be sending you a check for your balance shortly.

Regards,

Craig

Paradise Poker Support


************************************************** ************************************************


Is there anyone out there that has had a similar experience?

It appears I have been set up. I'm a winning player. I only play heads up games. Could it be that another player is trying to eliminate the competition? Any opinions? Or perhaps a rival Online Casino trying to piss off and irritate the paradise players. If that's the case it worked. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


Note: I replaced my real name with Flat Top where ever it appeared.


Thanks,


Flat Top

This is somewhat strange.


Flat Tops account was closed on 4/12 because of a couple of games with BillyGuy between 15:44 and 15:50 on 4/11. The email from Paraidse is dated 4/12, but Flat Top did not post until 4/16.


Now Paradise closed Playboy's account because of several games with BillyGuy between 15:58 and 15:59 also on 4/11, just a few minutes after the games with Flat Top.


Did Paradise wait until 4/25 to close your account, Playboy? or was your account also closed on 4/12?

This looks like a clear setup to me. Somebody wanted both of you out and they knew how to do it. I cant understand why pp dont see what I see. Setup for sure. Very strange still.

It's not really Erik123 i'm afraid, it's his brother on his account.


I find these situations very strange. Credit card fraud looks like the most feasible reason for doing this, but that does not mean that Playboy is involved. And why would anyone do this in an attempt to get a player banned? These guys only play heads up, so why not just avoid them?

"And why would anyone do this in an attempt to get a player banned? These guys only play heads up, so why not just avoid them?"


you can't gut the fish if someone else catches them first.

More like a competitor of Paradise than a fish. What stupid fish would spend a few hundred bucks eliminating two players like Flattop & Playboy, to make less competiton for themselves? What about all the other good/brilliant h2h players there, cause there ARE a lot of them at PP. FT & PB are a drop in the sea of good h2h players!


BillyGuy talking to himself:


"2 down 100 to go. Can't wait until I've eliminated all these good h2h players. It's gonna be so much easier to play here when Iv'e got rid of 'em /images/smile.gif Gonna be very expensive though. /images/frown.gif Oh well, I'll win it all back from the fish in the long run. (Plus interest, hehehehehehehe...) I hope no one notices anything suspicous going on while I proceed with my: "Getting all the best h2h players banned from PP."


Some online poker site doing really crap:


"F***!! Now we've tried everything to get more users to stop playing at Paradise and start playing with us. But every time we come with improvements to our site, PP just do the same, only MUCH better. We have a few dozen players playing here while PP have a few thousand! I give up. I know, what if......"


Next week:


"Yippi! Got Playboy and Flattop banned, (and their 120 diciples) and now they're playing with us! Nice 1, back to work! So this Piesang & Blue Octopus, what were you saying about them?"

I would guess that Billyguy funded his account with a stolen credit card number, and your account was closed because he appeared to be dumping money to you. Unless Paradise had evidence of a relationship between your account and that of Flat Top, however, I think they should have concluded that you (and Flat Top) were not guilty and Billyguy was a moron.


If crooks wanted to transfer money at a heaudp table, they certainly could do so in a less obvious manner. Nevertheless, Paradise is entitled to exercise excessively strict and foolish measures to combat money laundering and credit card fraud. As long as they promptly send you a check for all your deposited funds, I cannot get too upset at them. I do feel badly for you and FlatTop though.


Regards,


Mike

Playboy you were set up big time , i cant believe paradise cant figure this out. I feel bad for you, but i'm sure you 'll do just as good on other site, I'll miss watching u play Hu.


take care

I agree it would make no sense for another player to try to eliminate competition in that manner; surely Paradise booted Billy as well.


A competing online cardroom would have more to gain by this tactic, though I still think the most likely explanation is that BillyGuy was a moron (or perhaps playing intoxicated on that day).

Its obvious. They were winning to much money. Paradise did this not billyguy. Playboy was winning to fast and cutting into their profits so they got him banned. Money has to go back and forth for them to get it. Playboy was taking it. Damn greedy bastards

Above I've posted a question that's bugging me -- no answer.


How did Playboy's account go from $350 to $799 in what looks like the very next hand? The loss from BillyGuy does not account for this. And, why would he add money to his stack?


That's what is strange about the post. Playboy, you don't need to explain. However, when you're posting in a public forum and we're supporting you, I think it would be nice to know.

"This looks like a clear setup to me. Somebody wanted both of you out and they knew how to do it. I cant understand why pp dont see what I see."


Hard to believe why PP "don't see what you see", they are working from incomplete data. They only have access to all hand-histories including hole cards to all players involved, IP addresses, credit-card numbers, chat histories, credit-card refusal to pay and stolen card notices.


While you have three hand-histories and an anonymous posted message.

hi

during the game a bought an extra 400 dollars, i do that alot to intimidate players. that player only lost to me a few 100. Sometimes a buy in 5000 or even 10000 to scare my oppostion and most of the time it does work. i started with 400 and a few hands later i buy another 400.


hope that answer your question.

Thanks for letting me know! Yes, I've seen you do this before.


As I mentioned I have closed my account there the night before your post. It was odd that I suspected an attack on paradise. I then saw your post, and thought "hmmm... something weird is definitely going on". So, I just wanted to confirm my thinking -- want to make sure I do the right things for the right reasons -- not just jumping on the bandwagon as others may think.


I think paradise is on the up-and-up. However, your situation and mine makes me think their focus is on the the wrong things. In both of our experiences there was some extremely strange play against us, some very loyal long standing customers. In my situation (small potatoes btw), they didn't catch the offenders -- they didn't touch me though. In yours they went after you and FlatTop. Again though, they didn't focus on the guy with the strange play.


I really hope they improve their software detection techniques and take a different approach in barring offenders. I liked playing there after all.

I don't understand the big deal ... personally i have played heads up and dumped money to a friend before because he didn't want to deal with verifying Paypal and couldn't get his credit card to work. So he gave me the cash and I dumped him money on Paradise ? Whats wrong with this ?

A possible motive for this 'BillyGuy' could be revenge? If he is another player who had previously lost large $$ to these two gentleman (flat top + playboy), this bitter person could have created the BillyGuy account with the sole purpose of taking out FT+PB for a cheap 200$ revenge? Just a thought, it may or not be plausible?

The games got tougher in the limits we were playing there and we broke even for four months.


We have tried other sites and started winning.


We made a few tries back there and didn't do well, so we stopped hitting our heads against a wall and the headache went away.


MS Sunshine

It's against their policy and it's unnecessary. They'll transfer the money for you if you just ask.


TRLS

I assume they took down Billyguy's account too. At least I have not seen him around. They weren't just going after Playboy/flattop.