KK hand. River decision.

[AdamL]

CO is fish. SB is smaller fish.

I assume bet the river and fold to a raise. Unfortunately, I've never had this line and NOT seen a weak ace at the end. I suppose that's just variance?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (7 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero...

Final Pot: 9 BB

[AdamL]

Converter is miscounting # of players in the pot.

[jonahmavesin]

If you're going to bet the river and fold to a raise, why not just check-call the river? Leaves your chance to win against any non-A hand intact, costs you the same amount. At worst it costs you the bet you might have won; nobody's folding a hand that would beat you.

[TylerD]

I would check-call. Why bet and fold to a raise when it would cost the same to see a showdown?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to bet the river and fold to a raise, why not just check-call the river? Leaves your chance to win against any non-A hand intact, costs you the same amount. At worst it costs you the bet you might have won; nobody's folding a hand that would beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-calling is bad because aces will bet but tens won't.

If the flop were more draw-heavy, check-calling would be more viable because that might be the only way to make a bet from a missed draw.

[TylerD]

What about KQ and QJ, wouldn't they bet the river? Wouldn't a "fish" try to bluff the river as well, perhaps with tens, perhaps with a smaller pair?

[cjromero]

Given his description of the cutoff, I still think you are more likely up against a weak ace than a 10, in which case a check/call line seems to be the best play.

[AdamL]

Check-calling doesn't do anything for me if I'm up against a weak ace. I only gain if he checks through, which is doubtful. He'll have a T more often than he'll check through.

[AdamL]

Wouldn't a fish CALL with a Q?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
What about KQ and QJ, wouldn't they bet the river? Wouldn't a "fish" try to bluff the river as well, perhaps with tens, perhaps with a smaller pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

KQ and QJ, if they called the turn incorrectly with a gutshot, will often be happy to take the free showdown with a hand that they can in fact show down.

[The Dude]

You're being far to pessimistic about your hand here. You can't fold for one bet on this river, and you're much better off betting than check-calling, for reasons Nate has already explained.

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
You're being far to pessimistic about your hand here. You can't fold for one bet on this river, and you're much better off betting than check-calling, for reasons Nate has already explained.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think Nate and I are in agreement on betting.

On calling a raise, there aren't too many hands raising the river here that I beat, but an argument could be made that he might just be out of line.

[Nick C]

If CO is passive, and it sounds like he is, then I think a bet-fold line on the river is best. The biggest drawback I see to this plan is that you might've gotten a free showdown versus a weak ace. But it doesn't sound like you have to worry too much about getting bluff-raised by a worse hand. And it doesn't sound like he'll bet a worse hand he wouldn't have called with, either.

In position, though, I'd probably just check behind, given the chance.

[Thomsen]

A raise on this river will almost never be a one pair hand. So you can safely bet out and fold to a raise.

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]

In position, though, I'd probably just check behind, given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the range of hands he calls with that you beat are larger than the amount of times he has a weak ace. Are you sure you should check behind in that situation?

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
In position, though, I'd probably just check behind, given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a big mistake. I'm definately betting the river if checked to.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In position, though, I'd probably just check behind, given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the range of hands he calls with that you beat are larger than the amount of times he has a weak ace. Are you sure you should check behind in that situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not sure. In position, checking behind might be bad. I doubt your opponent will fold a better hand, but maybe you will win more than half the time when you're called. (And against this opponent, a checkraise bluff doesn't sound like much of a concern.)

[uw_madtown]

I routinely bet and fold to a raise in this type of situation. I'd consider check-calling or bet-calling if it were a player who I've got a particular read on (or, most importantly, if he may have a read on me and try a bluff raise). But bet-fold seems correct to me.