Out just after the bubble.

[JGalt]

I've been doing well getting to the bubble or just after the bubble with an average stack or just around there. My problem is that I keep going out just after the bubble if I make it.

I'm cinfused as to what strategy to use. Should you be using 3x raise or commiting your stack with decent hands. Or maybe I'm being to loss with my hand selection. Just pushed, first in, with a QJo in MP. Blinds were 600-1200 and I had just under 10 000. I got called by button that had AA and got knocked out.

Is this correct strategy or should I do min. raises so that I could have a chance to get away from the hand. I've had the same situation happen the last few tourneys I've made it in the money.

Any advice or links to advice would be appreciated.

thanks

[andy_p]

QJ off , is not a hand you should be looking to play in that situation , never mind raise with it !

[JGalt]

Is it really that bad of a hand to be pushing with, first in, with blinds so high? Especially when every orbit is costing roughly 2500t.

[Lloyd]

You're essentially talking about playing post-bubble with a small stack so that is what I'm addressing. As a general rule, any time I enter a pot with less than 10XBB I'm going to push. The reason is that if you make a normal raise of 3-4XBB and get re-raised all-in, you have the odds to call with just about anything so you might as well be the one pushing. If I had AA or KK I might make just a normal raise to encourage action and if I was pretty close to 10XBB I might make a normal raise with some other hands.

You should rarely, if ever, make a minimum raise. It offers too good of hands for people to call with speculative hands that can bust you. You might be able to get away with a raise of 2.5XBB if the blinds are tight and shortstacked.

Your hand selection definitely needs some improvement. Until you get down to under 5XBB you should not be pushing IMHO with hands that you wouldn't be raising with if you were not shortstacked. And if you normally raise w/QJo from MP then that's a whole other issue. With 8.5XBB from MP I'd be playing middle and big pairs, AK-AJ (maybe ATs), maybe KQs. But you've got some time to find a decent hand so there's no need to panick. And in online tourneys, once the bubble passes you'll see lots of people pushing with marginal hands and busting out. So it's a good time to catch them with a decent hand, and also to let them bust out and move up in the money.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really that bad of a hand to be pushing with, first in, with blinds so high? Especially when every orbit is costing roughly 2500t.

[/ QUOTE ]

Per my previous post, you're not desperate and this is a hand you push when you are desperate. And how is it costing you T2500 per orbit? Are there antes?

[JGalt]

Thanks for your reply. Yes there are antes of 75. I do play much tighter up to the bubble, but feel like I need to make moves to survive. I will definetly think hard about my post bubble play now.

[marc merrill]

With a queen jack you obvioudly don't want to be caled casue wll be ahead, at best you are in a race. I know that the blinds are an important factor but just because you have tw oface cards doesn't mean you want to push all in I mean if you are called there is a good chance you aredominate by an aq or ak qq or kk or aa so maybe in way no difference if pushed in with 78 suited in some positions it is better except ofr fact that may be called by 99 or 88 or 1010 so u hav a race with ur qj, but really it comes down to knowing your table and what kind of respect your raises get. Basically you are trying to raise in later positions to pick up pots, no if someone has a small stack and is playing tight then you want to raise there blinds becasue then they will be apt to fold becasue they are near the money, Also you have to look at who is limping, often when someone limps and has lots of chips they could be reltively weak or marginal, what I mean is they have lots of chips so they limp a lot see flops, now if a person is doing this then you raise when they limp to steal their money and also it doesn't look liek a steal as much becasue someone allready limped so it appears as though you have a hand, you are realy looking for spots to pick up pots so blinds don't eat you, but you don't need to be anxious, lso rasing chip leaders allhough can be dangerous isn't a bad idea even if not hugely strong often they will defend their blinds with weak holdings and very well give it up to you on flop or make bluff in which you can move in on them if hit oer maybe if don't but need to be cautious and use read on how player plays, other players are scared of bubbling so you need to take advantage, plsu if take risk near bubble may be given credit for hand if tight and people think you wouldn't risk going out before money,basically you are looking for perfect spots to pick up pots and when you have a hand hopefully you double up, the bubble is a perfect time to gain chips I am starting to learn this more and more as in my last tourney I really made a move before the money. After the bubble player may be more willing to gamble, but in way you may be able to play small races to build up your stack against small stacks who now need to move in so not worst thing, basically you have to see who is still tight and can be played with and who has chips and is going to play fearlessly against you, it is a game of spots and you need to pick the right ones, no need to go all in with qj of have ten bbs, maybe make triple raise or so but no need to get desperate allthough I see reasoning for it as put person to task and often people will fold, but there are often those perfect spots to pick up just need to find them not sure if i answered you and may have bee nredundant but that is my advice i am out

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
With a queen jack you obvioudly don't want to be caled casue wll be ahead, at best you are in a race. I know that the blinds are an important factor but just because you have tw oface cards doesn't mean you want to push all in I mean if you are called there is a good chance you aredominate by an aq or ak qq or kk or aa so maybe in way no difference if pushed in with 78 suited in some positions it is better except ofr fact that may be called by 99 or 88 or 1010 so u hav a race with ur qj, but really it comes down to knowing your table and what kind of respect your raises get. Basically you are trying to raise in later positions to pick up pots, no if someone has a small stack and is playing tight then you want to raise there blinds becasue then they will be apt to fold becasue they are near the money, Also you have to look at who is limping, often when someone limps and has lots of chips they could be reltively weak or marginal, what I mean is they have lots of chips so they limp a lot see flops, now if a person is doing this then you raise when they limp to steal their money and also it doesn't look liek a steal as much becasue someone allready limped so it appears as though you have a hand, you are realy looking for spots to pick up pots so blinds don't eat you, but you don't need to be anxious, lso rasing chip leaders allhough can be dangerous isn't a bad idea even if not hugely strong often they will defend their blinds with weak holdings and very well give it up to you on flop or make bluff in which you can move in on them if hit oer maybe if don't but need to be cautious and use read on how player plays, other players are scared of bubbling so you need to take advantage, plsu if take risk near bubble may be given credit for hand if tight and people think you wouldn't risk going out before money,basically you are looking for perfect spots to pick up pots and when you have a hand hopefully you double up, the bubble is a perfect time to gain chips I am starting to learn this more and more as in my last tourney I really made a move before the money. After the bubble player may be more willing to gamble, but in way you may be able to play small races to build up your stack against small stacks who now need to move in so not worst thing, basically you have to see who is still tight and can be played with and who has chips and is going to play fearlessly against you, it is a game of spots and you need to pick the right ones, no need to go all in with qj of have ten bbs, maybe make triple raise or so but no need to get desperate allthough I see reasoning for it as put person to task and often people will fold, but there are often those perfect spots to pick up just need to find them not sure if i answered you and may have bee nredundant but that is my advice i am out

[/ QUOTE ]

Paragraphs. Punctuation.

Seriously, it's your first post so welcome, but it's too tough to read the way you have posted.

[Emperor]

First Post... Welcome...

Hopefully they only improve from here.

Paragraphs usually work nicely

Oh and just so you know...

Sample Size too small...

[andy_p]

Yeah it wasnt the best english / grammar , but it was v good poker advice , thought that was what this forum was about , guess I should go to the english language forum to learn poker !

[davidross]

First of all, if you run into AA you're in trouble no matter what you have.

I play that hand just before the bubble but not just after it. Going into the bubble with less than 20 to go before the money, you can steal a lot of blinds and get yourself in a good position for the post bubble period when it gets crazy. Post bubble everyone starts pushing and thats when I tightenup and only play big pairs and AK. I don't like your raise at all, I think you will get called by a lot of Ax hands etc. If you are willing to gamble then sure..go for it, but if you are hoping to steal blinds, the immediate post bubble time isn't a great time to do it. I wouldn't consider myself desperate until you got down to under 7K or so.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah it wasnt the best english / grammar , but it was v good poker advice , thought that was what this forum was about , guess I should go to the english language forum to learn poker !

[/ QUOTE ]

When you read as many of these posts as some of us do, it's a little tough on the eyes and the brain when you're reading one long fragmented paragraph.

[marc merrill]

I am dorry for the poor grammar, and also for the longevity of the post. When I write about poker I get carried away sometimes. I try to write as fast as my mind is thinking and as a result my grammar suffers and I generally don't proof read. I'll make sure to be better about it next time.

[marc merrill]

My grammar was wrong again. I spelt sorry with a d, thus saying dorry.

[zaxx19]

Dont worry the post actually was quite on mark. As for the grammar ....just a cursory proofread would be helpful these guys reemed me many times for much worse stuff; keep posting.

Oh and QJo is an insta muck. Look at that point in the tourney 10XBB isnt as short stack and or desperate as alot of players on here seem to think. If you are gonna push with QJo make sure you are in the back and have limpers...or are the SB or BB with soime dead $$ in the pot. Up front this is a clear muck.