AJs hand, weak tight on river?

[grouchie]

First, before criticizm on calling preflop, it was an accident. I usually would not call with AJs. However, what about the rest of the hand?
Should I have raised the turn?
Should I have called the river?



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($1.5)
Button ($35.15)
SB ($12.35)
BB ($26.4)
Hero ($50.34)
UTG+1 ($43.4)
UTG+2 ($84.06)
MP1 ($25.71)
MP2 ($9.65)
MP3 ($209.23)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $1.50 (All-In), Button folds, SB (poster) folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2.5</font>, Hero calls $2.50, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $2.50.

Flop: ($11.25) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, MP1 folds, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($19.25) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($29.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
BB calls $14.40 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $43.65

[amoeba]

preflop aside, I think I fold that turn.

check call preflop, lead the flop means he has AK beat.

[soah]

What were you trying to accomplish with your flop bet?

[amoeba]

on the off chance BB had JJ and wanted to isolate preflop

or BB had KK but hero wanted BB to not bluff him off his weak kicker in subsequent rounds.

thats my guess.

[Kaz The Original]

Whats with the tiny bet on the flop?

[soah]

Suppose you were BB with KK and UTG put that $4 bet out there. Doesn't it look like KK might still be the best hand? Can't you see a lot of players playing out the hand in that fashion with KK? No one makes a strong move at the flop so we call... we make a weak turn bet to see if we get raised... nope. Looks like no one has an ace, and the pot is big, let's shove the last few dollars in....

[amoeba]

soah, i agree with you that by the turn, hero must know he is beat.

however, lets say he checks the flop.

Then BB bets in to him on the turn?

anyways, I'm not saying Hero's flop bet is a great move, I'm just saying possible reasons for doing it.

[grouchie]

I agree completely.
My flop bet was ass, I should have bet the pot to see if he had an Ace or not.
When he bet the turn I should have eithor Raised or folded.

I realized this afterward, which is why I posted the hand.

Played the hand like an idiot and deserved to lose.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
soah, i agree with you that by the turn, hero must know he is beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never meant to imply this. A lot of hands could call the weak flop bet because it looks really weak. And a lot of hands could make a weak lead on the turn. (Or at least, a bad player could make a weak lead with a lot of hands on the turn.) The way the hand has been played, you don't know where you're at.

[ QUOTE ]
anyways, I'm not saying Hero's flop bet is a great move, I'm just saying possible reasons for doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the reason for the weak flop bet is to sucker KK/etc into thinking they are good, then you can't fold on the end getting 3:1

[amoeba]

hey soah, when I posted I didn't realize how much HERO underbet the flop.

anyways, I didn't mean you want to sucker KK in. I think this is one of these bets that can't get a better hand to fold and cant get a weaker hand to call.

And I remember Sklansky giving an example that on the river, there is one case in which you want to make a bet in which you can't get a better hand to fold and can't get a weaker hand to call and thats a blocking bet.

So partially its HERO blocking for future streets. At least that seemed like the motivation.

[Biff M.]

What are the reasons for betting this flop? If we go by the hands BB could be raising with:

AA - You don't wanna bet
KK - You wanna bet
AK - You don't wanna bet
QQ - You don't wanna bet
And even if his standards from BB included AQ - You don't wanna bet.

You're practically drawing dead against 3/5 hands here, and in big trouble against AK. Even if you bet this against KK, he might raise your measly bet just to test you and get you to lay it down. This should make a fine example why you don't wanna play AJ in a big pot. Good PF action, interesting flop. I see people run off all their chips on this kind of hands all the time.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is one of these bets that can't get a better hand to fold and cant get a weaker hand to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his bet is too small to achieve this effect. Actually, against certain players no bet could achieve this effect (those that can't release their premium hands regardless of how bad the flop is for them).