WPT Hand this week (HU) Corkins vs. Mohammed

[drexah]

i'm very surprised this hasn't been posted about. i watched this episode (with phil hellmuth, i presume its the newest one on tv) it was down to heads up, Hoyt Corkins and Mohammed [something]. Hoyt had a chip lead but i don't think it was even close to 2:1. Anyways, and as i said i don't remember the hand that well, but Mohammed turned two pair in position, and Hoyt went all in in EP. Mohammed thought and laid down his two pair to a decently drawing board. This seemed EXTREMELY odd to me, as Hoyt had been basically pushing preflop/flop an insane amount just chippign away at Mohammed's stack. It showed Negreanu/Lindgren/few other pro's in the stands as Mohammed folded his two pair face up, and they looked like they just saw a ghost. If someone could elaborate or post the exact stacks/blinds/play of hand that would be nice, as well as a discussion, thanks.

[binions]

This show was on last season.

As for the hand, it was a poor laydown.

[krazyace5]

On the turn their was 3 spades on the board, Hoyt went all in representing the flush, mohammed bought it and folded. I don't get why he showed his hand though.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn their was 3 spades on the board, Hoyt went all in representing the flush, mohammed bought it and folded. I don't get why he showed his hand though.

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Yeah, why show a guy who has a propensity to bluff that you're capable of laying down 2 pair.

[That guy]

Mo blew it on that one.

I already deleted it from my TIVO but as I remember, Mo showed weakness on the flop. As I remember it, Mo was out of position - not in position -- but I may be wrong.
Either way, Mo did show weakness on the flop.

The 3rd spade hit on the turn and Hoyt bet. Mo raised about 3x the size of Hoyts bet. Then Hoyt went all-in with top pair and Mo thought for a long time and folded.

Ted Forrest's face said it all... He was essentially saying 'what a choke.'

As Sexton pointed out... wouldn't Hoyt have bet a 4-flush on the flop?

Hoyt had been going all-in a lot but not when Mo had shown strength. Mo showed real strength on this hand with his large raise and lost his nerve when Hoyt went all-in.

The way the hand was played, Mo should have thought that it looked like he may be just trying to take the pot away from Hoyt with nothing. Hoyt thought Mo was weak by the way the flop was played. Mo's strategy worked and then he lost his nerve. Folding 2-pair in a heads-up situation just because a 3rd spade hit is scared poker.

Anyone disagree?

[TheHawk]

It is always easy to Monday morning QB, but I agree completely - I think it was a fairly easy call, given the pot odds and the extremely aggressive style Hoyt had assumed once they got to 3 handed. Ironically, he ended up calling his last half million or so preflop with Q 8 suited, having committed only hs blinds prior to the call. Hard to believe he was more comfortable calling there, than with his two pair on the turn. Personally, I wondered if all the playing up to the crowd he did impacted his concentration.

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
Mo blew it on that one.

I already deleted it from my TIVO but as I remember, Mo showed weakness on the flop. As I remember it, Mo was out of position - not in position -- but I may be wrong.
Either way, Mo did show weakness on the flop.

The 3rd spade hit on the turn and Hoyt bet. Mo raised about 3x the size of Hoyts bet. Then Hoyt went all-in with top pair and Mo thought for a long time and folded.

Ted Forrest's face said it all... He was essentially saying 'what a choke.'

As Sexton pointed out... wouldn't Hoyt have bet a 4-flush on the flop?

Hoyt had been going all-in a lot but not when Mo had shown strength. Mo showed real strength on this hand with his large raise and lost his nerve when Hoyt went all-in.

The way the hand was played, Mo should have thought that it looked like he may be just trying to take the pot away from Hoyt with nothing. Hoyt thought Mo was weak by the way the flop was played. Mo's strategy worked and then he lost his nerve. Folding 2-pair in a heads-up situation just because a 3rd spade hit is scared poker.

Anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's probably more to it here. Hoyt was playing recklessly, but there were quite a few hands that Hoyt could have that had Mo completely smoked, not just a flush: and many hands, even if Mo is ahead, Hoyt will have redraws with.

Then we have the fact that Hoyt pushed over the top of a Mo check-raise.

I'm not going to say it was necessarily a good fold on Mo's part, but I can understand why he would lean toward folding in a scary situation for all his chips, especially given Hoyt's propensity to randomly pushing: I would guess Mo thought there would be a better time to get his chips in.

[Dan Mezick]

In that hand, Hoyt limped or checked or made an insignificant bet before the turn.

The turn was a spade, yielding 3 spades on board.

Mohammed bet a respectable amount and Hoyt made a big raise, at the 3-spade board.

Hoyt's post-flop and post-turn bets were consistent with him holding 2 spades to a (suddenly) 3-spade board.

Especially in light of Mohammed's significant 2-pair bet after the turn.

Viewed in this context, you can see Mohammed is a smart player. He waited for a better spot rather than flip a coin with Hoyt to see if he was bluffing.

Mohammed also had the river bet to deal with. He knew he would go broke if he was wrong about the bluff, and he WAS looking at 3 spades on board, with zero chance of using them for anything in HIS hand. He had only 4 outs to improve to a full boat, the only hand that could beat a probable flush.

Hoyt's betting was completely consistent with 2 spades in the pocket after the turn.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, why show a guy who has a propensity to bluff that you're capable of laying down 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are three possible answers to this question.

1.) He hoped Corkins would come after him even harder.

2.) He really believed Corkins had the flush, and was trying to put him on tilt by showing a great laydown.

3.) He wasn't sure why he was doing it.

I suspect it was either 2. or 3.

[That guy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, why show a guy who has a propensity to bluff that you're capable of laying down 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are three possible answers to this question.

1.) He hoped Corkins would come after him even harder.

2.) He really believed Corkins had the flush, and was trying to put him on tilt by showing a great laydown.

3.) He wasn't sure why he was doing it.

I suspect it was either 2. or 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not #1, Hoyt only had a 3-2 chip stack lead. Mo could have had over 3x chip stack lead if he won that hand. You don't set somebody up if you can double-up.

He must have believed Hoyt had a flush or straight but why not top pair or a smaller 2 pair or maybe hoyt just had a single big spade with 1 card to come(<20%...). or maybe a pair and a flush draw where he would still be a big underdog.

Hoyt had been reckless on his all-ins. True he hadn't done it when Mo had made a big raise but how do your chips not go in when you have 2-pair vs a reckless heads-up player??

making big laydowns, is that a way to win heads-up poker vs a very aggressive player?? others will say, 'he went with his read'... well, this was a bad read and a bad play. You beat or are well ahead of a lot of hands here...

Mo later called all-in with Q8... How exactly does Q8 play all-in pre-flop?? not well.

[Dan Mezick]

...the possible embarrassment of calling a Hoyt-made flush with a 2-pair (with the river card to go) had to be weighing on his decision to lay it down.

If he called, everyone would assess an error to him if he lost. He would also be out of the game on that very hand.

I'm sure he considered these items before he layed it down.

I'm pretty sure I would have looked for a better spot also. He kind of trapped himself.

The moral of the story is, decide if your current bet commits you absolutely, before you bet.

Then, bet accordingly.

[Drac]

What makes the play look so bad is how he played AFTER that. It was a tough but understandable lay down IF he's looking to get his money in in a better spot. He sure didn't do a good job of finding a better spot.

[Nothinghead]

the only thing that i could think of that would really make laying his hand down (besides thinking he was beat) was that he was hoping finding a better spot to get all his money in. Hoyt had been pushing a lot preflop (from what we could see on the show) when it got shorthanded with all sorts of garbage hands. maybe he was hoping to get his money in as more of a clear favorite.