The End of Poker

[Caruso329]

Just a fair warning, this post contains some farfetched and imaginative ideas, please proceed with caution if you have trouble accepting thoughts such as these.

Last night I was playing my weekly home game with several close friends. It was late and the only drunk guy started asking some questions to stir some conversation. It started out as what is your biggest fear. Then someone else asked another silly question: "If you could give up sex for anything, would you and what would it be?" Most if not all of us said we would not give up sex, but after doing some bathroom thinking today I rethought my answer.

I think that I would give up sex for the power of ESP. The ability to read minds. There are hundreds of advantages to this (some being less moral than others), being able to use others private ideas for your own success, being able to say what someone is wanting to hear (to get out of a ticket), and to be able to have an 100% exact read on someone at the card table.

As I was thinking of this I remembered Brunson's comments on ESP in Super System.

Page 23 "Is it really too unreasonable to suspect that such a highly sophisticated electrical device as the human brain, during the intensity of concentration in a big pot, could broadcast a simple message like a "Pair of Jacks" a mere eight feet?"

I have not done any formal research on ESP, but I know there are advances being made in the field. Experts say that ESP is very possible in the future if they can learn more about the secrets of the brain. The common holding is that we only use about 10% of our brains capabilities. I looked into this and there are countless sites saying and showing my this cannot be true. Here is one for anyone interested:
10% Myth (http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/brain-myth)

Suppose one day that ESP is possible and available to the masses. I, personally, think this would surely be the end of poker. ESP would introduce an entirely new and highly sophisticated form of collusion. Players would need no partners except their brain, they would know exactly what your hole cards are just my reading your thoughts. I'm sure most people think to themselves "Pocket Aces", "Ace Jack of Diamonds", etc. when first looking at their hole cards.

Of course, there could very well be "ESP scramblers" or other methods used to prevent this new form of collusion from occuring. But that is just one thought.

I sincerely think that until the game was updated to prevent this sort of collusion from occuring that it would be the death of poker as we know it.

P.S. Even given the options between sex and ESP, I would take the sex. There.. manhood defended.

[Cooker]

Wouldn't such a device be an enormous invasion of privacy? Don't you think the government would probably outlaw such a device except for police use? Heck, tapping someone's phone is illegal, and that only hears their conversations. I basically believe that given the choice between reading other people's minds but having to allow them to read yours also or no mind reading at all most people would prefer no mind reading at all.

Granted, if such a device existed, there will be people that try to get them and use them, but all in all, I don't expect they will be a big problem. Besides, I imagine that when one plays online they would be well outside the range of an ESP device, so that won't change my poker playing experience at all.

[Caruso329]

I was talking about unleashing an ability to read minds, not using a physical device to achieve the same ability. If it was a device being used I'm sure that most B&M casinos would be able to use metal detectors to catch them before they even entered the floor. My post is geared towards the mental ability to read minds though.

You do bring up a good point though, what if everyone can read your mind? Now imagine the beginning of the discovery of ESP. The few people working on the project are going to be the only ones who will be able to use their new discovery for awhile, then the government will have access, probably followed by large corporations. Now what if some big name CEO with access to this ability is a poker player? Instant edge.

And I also ruled out the possibility that humans could very well evolve the ability. Would poker and other games like chess become obsolete?

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
Suppose one day that ESP is possible and available to the masses. I, personally, think this would surely be the end of poker. ESP would introduce an entirely new and highly sophisticated form of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Someone finally develops true ESP and the best thing they can think to use it for is . . . cheating at poker.

[Caruso329]

Do you really think that with the discovery of ESP all the top professionals who do this for a living and the countless enthusiasts are going to just up and quit playing poker?

[drexah]

solution: keep having sex and play poker online.

[kev0ut]

Just wear a tin-foil hat and you're good to go.

[Caruso329]

I applaud you on your first post kev0ut, I think we can expect great things from you in the future..

Drexah, so far that's my current plan of action and I report nothing but success at the tables, beds, chairs, floor, shower, etc.

[Rudbaeck]

I guess it's time to learn backgammon or pool then.

[alittle]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wear a tin-foil hat and you're good to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tin foil hats have been found to be woefully inadequate. The high tech solution uses 3M Velostat. See Thought Screen Hat (http://www.stopabductions.com/) for instructions. For poker use, I would suggest a base-ball style cap, but don't use a logo or you may not be able to wear it for WPT televised events.

[Gbob]

Well, although I highly doubt we'll see ESP ever, we will eventually face the problem of computer technology impacting poker. Imagine sitting at a table where other players will not only have total recall of hands play, but probability calculators feeding them real-time info on optimum strategy. We can allready see some of the results when we play online.

Going out longer, there's no reason to think that our senses won't also be enhanced. Combine perfect recall with the ability to sense minute changes in other people's biological reactions.

In poker, if everyone played with perfect strategy and with perfect reads on the table, then poker becomes no more than a question of random distribution of cards. Better off on the slot machines.

It's a damn depressing thought. We might get lucky. Perhaps our planet will wind up being ruled by apes. No cyborgs to worry about, and we can still keep playing poker in our cages when we're not slaving for our simian overlords.

[BadBoyBenny]

Dude. If we could read each other's minds, the murder rate would go up 100 fold. It's the solution to overpopulation.

[blank frank]

It is my understanding (I was told this by one of my graduate profs) that they finally managed to create a reproducible scientific experiment involving ESP. However, the results were that it was worse than random guessing.

[cpk]

In the sci-fi TV series Babylon 5, telepaths (those who had ESP) had to be registered with a division of the government, wear distinctive clothing, and were legally forbidden from playing games of chance.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I applaud you on your first post kev0ut, I think we can expect great things from you in the future..


[/ QUOTE ]

Kreskin, his first post was better than your first post in this stupid thread.

[Caruso329]

Who the hell is Kreskin? I said that about his first post and I stand by it.

Computer technology is already impacting poker online, how many winning players here do not use Poker Tracker (this is not a bash on Poker Tracker, I have bought it, but have yet to configure it), or some other program to track there play.

You talk of programs that give you real time odds and percentages (I'm guessing thats what you meant), already been done.
Calculatem (http://www.calculatem.com/index.html)
Just set that baby up to run in the background and you have instant odds and your estimated percent chance to win, just like on TV.

Hey, this maybe a stupid topic posted by me, but I'm glad at least a couple of people posted some relevant replies.

[barongreenback]

I reckon even with ESP there will still be people saying stuff like, 'I KNEW he had the flush but I called him down with my Queen high just to be sure'

[BarronVangorToth]

Dr. M. Night Shyamalan did some studies on how to block people (or "beings") from accessing your thoughts. His creation is shown here:

The Answer (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800018579&cf=pg&photoid=439143&intl= us)

Leave the water alone.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[Little Lew]

[ QUOTE ]
solution: keep having sex and play poker online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread this as meaning that these two activities should go on simultaneously and, as a newbie, I take all advice seriously.

Subsequently my VP$IP has dropped to 15%, my BB/100 is up to 17 and my wife is exceedingly happy - but there are some downsides - her head often obscures the monitor at vital moments and she has a bad scrape on her back from the kyboard.

[Mike Gallo]

Put the pipe down.

Stop smoking the Purple Haze..go back to the Northern Lights or the Kindbud.

[beta1607]

If people were able to use effective ESP - poker would be the least of the important things that would change. The government, the justice system, buisness and financial markets would all become obsolete. Either way - it aint going to happen in this lifetime holmes!

[Dan Mezick]

ESP is simply a buzz phrase/catch-all phrase for increased awareness. It can mean many things.

Increased awareness of others typically occurs when you have become more aware of yourself.

You don't have to give up anything to start doing that. The perceptions you gain regarding others as a result of self-awareness may amaze you.

Self-Awareness described (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness)

Studying psychological schools of thought such as Jungian analysis may make aspects of 'ESP' available to you, such as 'apperception'.

Carl Jung- a primer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung)

Jung's work on personality is the basis of the Myers-Briggs Temperament Indicator, a useful tool for understanding yourself and others.

Poker, Personality and the MBTI (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=psych&Number=733891&Fo rum=All_Forums&Words=personality&Searchpage=0&Limi t=25&Main=733891&Search=true&where=sub&Name=11333& daterange=1&newerval=40&newertype=w&olderval=&olde rtype=&bodyprev=#Post733891)

[ACW]

I suspect that even playing face up poker you'll find someone call a preflop raise from aces with 72o.

I've seen someone call a flop bet with 32 of diamonds on a king high flop (one diamond, no 2 or 3) with two players still to act behind. I only found out because he made a flush with runner, runner diamond. Anyone capable of this magnificent play is quite capable of losing heavily with the cards all face up.

[EdSchurr]

ESP (unless you want to use a definition given by a recent poster) is bullshit. Research into any traditional pseudoscience tends to involve poorly designed experiments by over-the-hill scientists or amateurs.

When I was reading up on that stuff in the distant past I never found a credible experiment. Of course, you hear about new "institutes" doing experiments via the news all the time, and it's impossible to keep up. But I wouldn't bet on any of them.

James Randi via his organization offers a $1 Million prize to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal (ESP included) powers under two properly designed experiments. Professional psychics bow out with lame excuses, and dowsers go home dissapointed. I won't bother explaining the entire thing; read http://www.randi.org.

Edit: I should add... "experts"! You are far too trusting. Your time would be better spent learning some journalism skills than wasting neurons with thoughts of ESP :P

[USGrant]

I think if you're getting laid (i.e. not just hypothetically abstaining from it) you don't come up with bong-hit ESP scenarios like this.

[Filet O' Fish]

I own a book titled "How To Make ESP Work For You" by Harold Sherman. The copyright is 1964 but the content is amazing and in my opinion beleivable. The author tells of his own experiences with ESP and gives the reader methods on how to acheive untapped power of the human mind. I personally don't have the discipline to follow the steps outlined in the text, but someone who does would greatly benefit. On a side note, I also thought of Brunson's comments in Super System when I found this book. I wonder what Doyle would think of it?

[Rudbaeck]

It's not true. Or if anyone ever did the schedule they never wanted $1,000,000 for their trouble. (Nor fame or anything else. Guess having ESP makes people very humble.)

[patrick dicaprio]

"I for one would like to welcome our new simian overlords. And I would like them to know that as a public personality, I can be useful in rounding people up to work in their underground bananan mines."

---Kent Brockman.

[K C]

Keep in mind that there are varying degrees of ESP. It's said that we all have this innate trait, most of it undeveloped and unrecognized. It's not the circus variety however, and usually comes across as somewhat of a "hunch." This does have its place in poker, although you want to be careful in using it. The key is distinguishing between these "feelings" and others such as fear or overconfidence.

And I'm not giving up sex to do it - hell, it's useful for that too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

[Caruso329]

lol, okay guys, this has gotten way out of control and by the way the sex part was just meaningless, it had nothing to do with the point of the thread, it just introduced the argument.

I get laid plenty for those who questioned my "theoretical" lack of virginity. And no, I would not give up sex.. but it would be damn cool to have ESP, read minds, control things, throw [censored] with your mind.. oh yea. But not worth giving up sex for.

No I was not stoned when I first posted this, I was just tired and out of it and thought it would score some quality replies... BZZZT! WRONG!

Ok, game on, no flames below the belt, keep the fight clean but trashy, and I want to see you guys come out swinging. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Wake up CALL]

I would give up sex for 100% accurate with unlimited distance ESP in a heartbeat.

First I would locate Osama Bin Laden then collect the bounty. I would then dedicate the rest of my life serving my country by exposing all the diry little secrets of liberal politicians. In a few short years our country would be great once again.

[Sophia]

[ACW]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the silliest post of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the one you were replying to wasn't entirely sensible either.

[codewarrior]

Ancient technology. The Germans have recently developed transparent aluminum - superior in every way for ray-blocking headwear.

[BusterFlush]

I did not read every post but instead of reading people's mind, I would rather be able to see the flop or board before it happens. Talk about a +EV!

[IndianOcean]

The real question is

Is it polite for me ask what you have been smoking??

~ Ocean
(find me at foxwoooodsss. on friday night playing 20/40 =)