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View Full Version : Dealing with a big slide -- best tactics?


MisterKing
01-21-2005, 02:39 PM
We all take some swings in small-stakes hold'em, that's just the nature of the game with so many players chasing longshot draws and the like. As someone who knows this, I've been very good about handling the highs and the lows in recent months, but now find myself in a position where a downswing has gone past my established threshold for short-term pain. But that's no reason to post. Rather, I'm posting here to see what strategies you all use to deal with particularly tough losing stretches... any advice is appreciated.

Without getting into the nitty gritty details, here's some context:

-I've been a winning player 10 months out of the last 10 (excluding this month) at various levels.
-I've played about 20,000 hands at my current level (2/4) with a short-term winrate of 3.5BB/100 (yes, I know this rate is meaningless since the sample is so small... no worries), a VP$IP of about 17, and a PFR% of just under 10.
-I make pretty extensive use of PT for "opposition research" and review of my own play, and also use PlayerView when multitabling.
-My current downswing has lasted generally over a 3 week period, consisting of a little more than -100BB over approximately 3,900 hands. (I don't have my exact PT data right in front of me).

So, beyond taking extra care to review my plan in PT after each session, paying closer attention to seat and table selection, and perhaps stepping the number of simultaneous tables down a little (from 3 or 4 to 1 or 2), I'm looking for other things that might be good steps to take.

I've identified Axs and 98s as two hands that I may need to play less first-in, so that's one thing to do. But beyond these smaller adjustments, I think the downswing has more to do with the nature of small-stakes than with the way I play.

For those of you who play more often than I do, I take it -100BB swings aren't all that uncommon over periods of 4K hands -- at least from time to time? Certainly I've had upswings of 100BB or more in half that many hands before. Point is, I don't want to cop out and shirk responsibility for the bad results, but part of me thinks that high variance is just part of the game and I better take to accepting that if I'm going to continue.

Take me to the woodshed, tell me I'm nuts, or, if not, maybe enlighten me as to things I should be doing to weather the storm. A healthy BR means that I can continue to play "my level," though I do anticipate switching up when the conditions look good at 1/2 full and 6-max in the next few sessions. Thanks!

JoshuaD
01-21-2005, 02:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So, beyond taking extra care to review my plan in PT after each session, paying closer attention to seat and table selection, and perhaps stepping the number of simultaneous tables down a little (from 3 or 4 to 1 or 2), I'm

[/ QUOTE ]


If you're confident that you're a winning player, you should continue to 4-table. Dropping down the number of tables will make the bad beats hurt more.

.. If you feel you need to work on your game, then by all means drop the number of tables, but otherwise I think you should continue to 4-table.

krishanleong
01-21-2005, 02:55 PM
From the perspective of someone trying to become better at the game, posting hands whether you win or lose makes sense. That said, I always post more hands when I'm on a downswing. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I find it takes the edge off and makes me feel more confident in my play.

Krishan

JoshuaD
01-21-2005, 02:57 PM
I agree. Post more hands up, get more positive reinforcement that you're playing well.

Smallyea
01-21-2005, 03:38 PM
Perhaps you or others would be able to inform me about fourtabling successes, but I'd recommend playing only one or two short-handed games at a time for awhile.
I know that you can simply outhold folks and make them pay through aggressiveness when multitabling. But what happens when you've got four hands going at once and on one of the tables an opponent bets a scare card and your ace high would be good if you called? Are you winning this pot, which probably has a moderate number of bets?
As Harrington says in his book, the cards are just tools used in poker, which is a game of wagering. From experience I've found that multitabling to be very card-centric.
So I recommended really working on your game at one table and see what you learn about the game as a whole and your play.

MaxPower
01-21-2005, 03:59 PM
The best thing is to take some time off if you are not feeling good about playing poker. I took 6 weeks off during the summer.

A 100 BB downswing is very mundane, so you are going to have to get used to it if your are going to play this game.

You need to accept the variance, but you also need to always be evaluating your play whether you are winning or losing.

MisterKing
01-21-2005, 04:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Post more hands up, get more positive reinforcement that you're playing well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough -- I'm happy to post some hands, but how interesting is it to look at 10 hands where a guy drew out on me runner-runner? Or where he caught his flush despite not having the odds to call at the turn?

Good points above about continuing to 4-table... I may do that and just be a little more flexible as far as game selection (1/2, 2/4, etc.) focusing on bisonbison's recent post about "relative position." I've also taken some time entirely away from poker, and may do so if this continues... but on top of that I had a few days where I just played NL and 3-table SnG games -- did great with both and thought I'd worked the demons out... bzzt. Wrong!

For your edification, here's one hand that happened last night:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

I don't normally play 33 up front, but with UTG limping and two guys posting, and the table showing a PFR average in Playerview of less than 8, I had to do it. And of course, it worked... no raises and I get huge odds on my call.

Flop: (13 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Pretty standard, eh? With the multiple straight draws out there, I don't see how I can slow down.

Turn: (13 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Checking here is too weak-tight for my taste, even with the intention to C/R. Just too unreliable, since my maniac (SB) has apparently decided to slow down. Any differing views?

River: (16 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

I put SB on AKs, perhaps an overpair, or some kind of busted draw. I beat all of those hands, and he's shown weakness twice by lead-checking. So its MP1 I'm worried about, and he's shown no aggression as yet... plus he's a known moron, often coldcalling 3 bets with any two suited, and so on -- so I didn't take his presence as seriously as I might have others. Probably a draw, but its hard to say that the 2/images/graemlins/club.gif necessarily helps him.

My thinking was that for a pot that large, I would basically have to call down no matter what. I also thought I'd be raised by a made straight on the turn if that's what MP1 had, but the slowplay was still possible. The 2/images/graemlins/club.gif was not a friendly card (since it gave anyone holding a 5 the straight, plus finished off some other draws on the board) but it was not so bad that I couldn't lead with my set... Checking the river may have been better nonetheless...

Final Pot: 20 BB
Hero has 3h 3s (three of a kind, threes).
MP1 has 8c Qc (flush, queen high).
(a hand that had a 5.6% chance of beating me at the flop)
Outcome: MP1 wins 20 BB.

Sophia
01-21-2005, 04:28 PM

MisterKing
01-21-2005, 04:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]

The river is a clear value bet. This is just a standard bad beat. It doesn't really illuminate much about your play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my reason for not posting hands in the first place. I don't think there is anything exceptional or different about my play lately -- the results have just been crappy. That's variance, I realize, and now the task is to try to find ways to just sack up and deal with it/get used to it.

rmarotti
01-21-2005, 05:15 PM
I found drinking heavily throughout the course of your downswing helps. . . Oh wait. No. That's what sent me back to the micros. Grit your teeth and smile. Good play will win out eventually.