Worst President of them all..

[Drunk Bob]

I saw a sign on the news during Dubyas' inugration.

The Worst President Ever. I think it was in Europe.

So who is or has been the Worst President Ever?

[RogerZBT]

Who's Richard Clinton?

[Drunk Bob]

AKA Bill. Richard Jefferson Clinton /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PoBoy321]

Definitely Harrison. I mean christ, who dies from pneumonia?

[Broken Glass Can]

I guess Chester Arthur, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge no longer rank as Presidents?


As for Richard Clinton, well he sometimes acted like Richard Nixon, I can understand the mistake.

Mark Warner doesn't have a chance to become President, even the people in Virginia hate him now.

[sillyarms]

F.D.R is imho the worst president ever. He's the ass who brought us social security and planted the seeds of socialism in this country.


silly

[Drunk Bob]

I am a person of Virginia that hates Demecraps.

The only politician (or his staff) that has helped me is Mark Warner.

Warner 2008!

[RogerZBT]

Am I missing something? Isn't it William Jefferson Clinton?

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something? Isn't it William Jefferson Clinton?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you are not sure?

How quickly we forget. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[RogerZBT]

I was sure until this thread.

[Drunk Bob]

My parents went thru the Depression as children and then WW2 ,how can you say FDR was the worst President ever.

Truman nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

A little back off here since My father was in the 4TH Marine Division that was scheduled to be the reserve for the invasion of Honshu.

But Trumans' postwar policies led to the Korean War,Vietnam and the current mess in the Middle East.

[Drunk Bob]

Ok. You caught me out .I made a boo-boo.

You sure its not Richard(Bill)

[InchoateHand]

Richard becomes "Dick."

William becomes Bill. Can you see why? I can break it down for you.
William----->Will, Will------>Bill.

How do you derive "Bill" from "Richard?"

If you are a non-native English speaker, apologies. Otherwise, hope these powers of deduction don't figure prominently in your poker playing.

[Toro]

Historians generally regard Harding as the worst President ever and you don't list him. Wtf kind of poll is this?

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
Historians generally regard Harding as the worst President ever

[/ QUOTE ]

Only liberal historians push this, and they go after him to prop up Wilson's status. Wilson is the most overrated President of all, he was a complete failure.

[Drunk Bob]

Arter getting all the presidents in order I make a make a mistake on "Suck me Monica","Sure Rich" Now I am an idiot?

[elwoodblues]

An idiot? Probably not. Really stupid mistake --- yep. It would be like if you put John Bush for the most recent president.

[Drunk Bob]

damn i missed one .Hardings friends were corrupt leading to the Teapot Dome scandal. How could I miss that one?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. You caught me out .I made a boo-boo.

You sure its not Richard(Bill)

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought this was an indirect way of calling him Dick.

[ddollevoet]

How is it that I am the only one who voted for Carter?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
How is it that I am the only one who voted for Carter?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just joined you. Although, I'm only willing to make an arguement for him being the worst post-WWII President. I'd have to think about whether he's the all-time worst. But, I don't feel like taking the time.

[threeonefour]

i looked over the list a couple of times and for the life of me i couldn't find warren harding? if he isn't on the list then why not? clinton is william jefferson clinton right, or that a joke i don't get?

at anyrate most historians agree that Ulysses Grant and Harding were probably the two most ineffective presidents in our history...

[andyfox]

I'm the only one, thus far, to vote for Nixon. Nobody harmed the country as much as he did while President, Vice President, and in congress, plus he was perhaps the most duplicitous person in the White House (which is saying a lot, given that we've had John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton, just in my lifetime).

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm the only one, thus far, to vote for Nixon. Nobody harmed the country as much as he did while President, Vice President, and in congress, plus he was perhaps the most duplicitous person in the White House (which is saying a lot, given that we've had John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton, just in my lifetime).

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't vote yet Andy because I got all hung up on him leaving Harding off. But you know who I was going to vote for, yup, tricky Dick. I'll do it now.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Jimmy Carter was easily the worst post WW2 president. He allowed the friendly Shah of Iran to be overthrown and then the religious nuts in Iran took over. These religious zealots proceeded to sponsor terrorism throughout the Middle East....as they still do today.

Carter's handling of the Iran Hostage crisis made the US look like a paper tiger and I would argued encouraged more attacks on the US. As a teenager, I remember the nightly news showing Iranians burning the US flag and burning effigies of Jimmy Carter dressed like Hitler on a nightly basis. Showing Carter dressed as Hitler was unfair to Hitler because Hitler at least had a set of balls....

Then Carter signed the Panama Canal treaty. Teddy Roosevelt acquired the land for the Panama Canal in exchange for backing rebels fighting for their independence from Columbia. The Panamal Canal was financed 100% by the USA and thousands of Americans lost their lives building the Canal by malaria epidemics. The canal zone was 100% US property. Then that fool Carter signs a treaty giving the canal to the Panamanians without ANYTHING in return. Huh?!?

On the domestic front, interest rates were around 20% and inflation was sky high. Imagine buying a house paying 20% interest....

Carter's greatest contribution was the US people were so disgusted with him they elected that "radical conservative" Ronald Reagan...

In the recent years, Jimmy Carter began to develop the reputation as one of America's greatest ex-presidents and even I began to develop a new respect for Jimmy Carter. But Carter's intrusion into North Korea during the Clinton presidency and his classless attacks on Bush43 have erased any respect I have for the man.

I consider Jimmy Carter to be the Neville Chamberlain of modern terrorist attacks on the US.

As for pre WW2 presidents, U.Grant and Harding were terrible. The levels of corruption during their administration were criminal.

[CORed]

William Henry Harrison died from pneumonia less than a month after giving a very long (I think it was something like an hour and a half) inaugural address in a cold rain. He deserved to die.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Historians generally regard Harding as the worst President ever

[/ QUOTE ]

Only liberal historians push this, and they go after him to prop up Wilson's status. Wilson is the most overrated President of all, he was a complete failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to agree. Wilson was a tool for the clowns who illegally pushed the Fed Reserve Act through. Without the Fed, many of our economic problems and foriegn intrigue would not have occurred. And don't forget the League of Nations which became the UN.

[adios]

I got me LBJ. Ok he did one good thing but it was outweighed by so many bad things which I don't feel like taking the time to enumerate and the bad things were really bad.

[CORed]

You also missed Calvin Coolidge.

[Vince Young]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Jackson yet...by far the worst.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I got me LBJ. Ok he did one good thing but it was outweighed by so many bad things which I don't feel like taking the time to enumerate and the bad things were really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it ironic that one of the smartest and most respected posters in this thread has by far the worst grammar. Well daryn's theory just went out the window.

I didn't vote for anybody. I am not a historian so I do not feel I am qualified to vote.

[theBruiser500]

I remember my history teacher had some pretty funny things to say about Harding, he was going to be my vote.

[BadBoyBenny]

Don't forget Versailles where he planted the seeds for WWII.

I thought I was going to be the only one who picked him.

[sillyarms]

FDR only managed to lower our standard of living until the war started. His socialist programs only made it worse. It gave the poor incentive to stay poor. And they did. Until the war came along and jump started the economy. The war brought us out of the depression not the maze of federal programs that FDR burdened us with.

silly

-Edit: From what I am reading about Wilson he was pretty horrible too.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
How is it that I am the only one who voted for Carter?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the country didn't have to suffer through the Nixon/Agnew/Pardon me Jerry Ford fiasco, the peanut farmer could never have been elected.

[GHWB]

Wow, everybody loves me! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jcx]

For me, it's close between Wilson and FDR, but Wilson takes it for making the worst decision ever made by a US president - entering the US into WWI. The armies of Europe had been kicking the sh*t out of each other for 3 years and had reached a bloody stalemate. In all likelihood, Germany would have eventually had to sue for peace, and some sort of agreement of near equals would have been worked out. Wilson's decision to throw hundreds of thousands of fresh US troops into the mix undoubtedly tipped the scales toward Germany's unconditional surrender. The harsh terms laid out by the Allies doomed the Weimar Republic even before it began and left the door wide open for one Adolph Hitler.

All I want out of our President is to ensure that the nations' borders are defended and to keep Congress in check so they can't be foisting B.S. laws on the American populace. I don't think either major party has a man worthy of the job.

[QuadsOverQuads]

FDR was by far the best, followed by Lincoln and then Jefferson. The fact that FDR is still utterly hated with a passion by the far right shows how truly effective he was at shoving their lies and propaganda right back up their fascist-sympathizing asses. We need another FDR today. Badly.

As for the worst, there are a lot of also-rans, but GWB clearly takes the cake. The rest may have been reckless, corrupt, blindminded, incompetent, paranoid, you name it. But George W. Bush is the only one I can also describe as a genuinely dangerous man. Mark my words: this man and his cabal *will* start World War III if they are not stopped. Their longstanding obsession with "national missile defense" -- to shoot down incoming ICBM's -- should be a serious warning about just what they're expecting the ultimate fallout of their policies to be. Terrorists don't fire ICBMs. Military superpowers like Russia and China do. Be very, very afraid when a group of mafia thugs and election thieves sets out to invade and occupy the middle east while obsessing about how to nullify weapons used solely by superpower-level military rivals. This is not a drill, folks. There is grave danger here unless these madmen are stopped.

And that's not even getting into their utter fiscal irresponsibility, their contempt for reason and truth and human rights, their obsession with dismantling the New Deal, their cult-like belief that their movement literally "speaks for God", their hatred of any American who doesn't toe their fanatical ideological line, and on and on and on. God, I could write volumes on their madness and still barely scratch the surface.)

Anyway: yes, George W. Bush and his cabal of thieves are, by far, the worst. Hands down, no contest, end of story.


q/q

[CORed]

I see FDR as very good in some respects, very bad in others. Regarding the Great Depression: Many of FDR's programs were counter-productive. However, without some of the programs, such as WPA, CCC, etc. many people would have starved. FDR's greatest fault was that he wanted to create a permanent welfare state, instead of using these programs solely as emergency measures. I also believe that some of his reforms were very beneficial. In particular the FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) was instrumental in preventing anothe great depression. What made the great depression so devastating was not the stock market crash that started it, but the collapse of the banking system that followed. The great depression, and many earlier economic downturns, were exacerbated by runs on the banks. Because people had no protection in the event of a bank failure, the first thing many people did at the first hint of economic problems was to pull there money out of the bank. Unfortunately, runs on the banks often caused banks to fail that would otherwise have survived.

I also think that FDR deserves credit for codifying collective bargain and labor relations. Prior to FDR's administration, labor unions were generally seen as dangerous criminal conspiracies, and government did everything they could to supress them. Although I'm not a big fan of labor unions, I believe they provide a necessary counter-balance to corporate power. FDR's reforms probably favored unions too much, and these excesses were later corrected to some degree by the Taft-Hartley act.

Regardless of what you think of the New Deal, and I see it as mixed, but more bad than good, I think you have to give FDR credit for his leadership in WWII, with the exception of the internment of the Japanese. FDR got us into WWII. Although I would normally give a president negative marks for getting us into a war, WWII was a war we needed to get into. FDR, by goading the Japanese into attacking us, unified a country that previously was seriously divided on the issure of getting involved in WWII. We won the war, and likely would not have survived had we lost.

[tek]

The seeds of what we are facing now started during the Wilson years. He wasn't even the president, he was a puppet of "Colonel" House's group. Dubya is a puppet of his father and the CIA.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
FDR was by far the best, followed by Lincoln and then Jefferson. The fact that FDR is still utterly hated with a passion by the far right shows how truly effective he was at shoving their lies and propaganda right back up their fascist-sympathizing asses. We need another FDR today. Badly.

As for the worst, there are a lot of also-rans, but GWB clearly takes the cake. The rest may have been reckless, corrupt, blindminded, incompetent, paranoid, you name it. But George W. Bush is the only one I can also describe as a genuinely dangerous man. Mark my words: this man and his cabal *will* start World War III if they are not stopped. Their longstanding obsession with "national missile defense" -- to shoot down incoming ICBM's -- should be a serious warning about just what they're expecting the ultimate fallout of their policies to be. Terrorists don't fire ICBMs. Military superpowers like Russia and China do. Be very, very afraid when a group of mafia thugs and election thieves sets out to invade and occupy the middle east while obsessing about how to nullify weapons used solely by superpower-level military rivals. This is not a drill, folks. There is grave danger here unless these madmen are stopped.

And that's not even getting into their utter fiscal irresponsibility, their contempt for reason and truth and human rights, their obsession with dismantling the New Deal, their cult-like belief that their movement literally "speaks for God", their hatred of any American who doesn't toe their fanatical ideological line, and on and on and on. God, I could write volumes on their madness and still barely scratch the surface.)

Anyway: yes, George W. Bush and his cabal of thieves are, by far, the worst. Hands down, no contest, end of story.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

Just what this forum needs, another moonbat.

[Richard Tanner]

Damn Wacki, millions over Americans vote that shouldn't. Don't let ignorance of the issues stop you.

Cody

[Zeno]

Forgetting Calvin Coolidge is easy to do and justified in my opinion.

Arguments could be made that General Grant was one of America's worst presidents. James Buchanan tops the bad list in the opinion of many historians.

I think the poll should be headed - Who was America's most entertaining president? A more interesting question in my opinion and also, leaving Calvin Coolidge off the list would then seem a quark of genius.

I have often wondered if the country would have become significantly different if John C. Calhoun or Henry Clay would have become president.

-Zeno

[Bigdaddydvo]

Carter was about as useless as a box of hair.

Sad how he's spent the last 25 years trying to reinvent and historically revise his abject failure of a presidency.

Oh yeah, it was awesome seeing him sit next to Michael Moore at the Democratic Convention last summer.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn Wacki, millions over Americans vote that shouldn't. Don't let ignorance of the issues stop you.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

I voted in this last election, but not the previous election. Just because there are many other ignorant voters doesn't mean I have to be one too. Seriously, what good does that do the country? Voting w/o being educated on the issues is just abusing your rights IMO.

[sternroolz]

FDR isn't HATED by anyone I don't think. I don't think the far right dislikes him either of course depending on how you define far right. In fact, your use of that term kinda shows your ridiculous bias.

The group that I would think would most dislike FDR's policies would be Libertarians, hardly far righter's.

FDR is not criticized for his war efforts, in fact I think the modern conservative would laud FDR in this regard. FDR is criticized for #1.) Threatning to increase the number of Supreme Court justices so that he could load the court with judges that shared his view of things, and 2.) Initiating a number of laws and programs that required a reliance on the federal government.

Libertarians see this as overstepping the Constitution, particularly the part about all rights not specifically granted to the federal government being reserved for the states.

Not sure what your link to the "far right"(whatever the hell that means) is.

[tek]

http://members.aol.com/paradigmtvnet/house.html

In 1912 Colonel Edward Mandell House anonymously published Philip Dru: Administrator. Colonel House was a top political advisor to President Wilson and President Roosevelt. He was also the founder of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

"Philip Dru-Administrator" was Houses blueprint for US involvement in a one-world government. Most of what he wrote in his book has come true.

[BLin]

[ QUOTE ]
FDR only managed to lower our standard of living until the war started. His socialist programs only made it worse. It gave the poor incentive to stay poor. And they did. Until the war came along and jump started the economy. The war brought us out of the depression not the maze of federal programs that FDR burdened us with.

silly

-Edit: From what I am reading about Wilson he was pretty horrible too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty ridiculous. FDR's biggest achievement was his handling of the banking situation in his first term. He was quick and decisive and saved the economy from utter collapse. FDR did more in his first 100 days than most presidents do in an entire term.

Oh, and by the way, he did get elected 4 times. I'd say that people pretty much liked him. I don't see any president after him getting elected to a fourth term, if they could.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any president after him getting elected to a fourth term, if they could.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, Reagan would have been elected to a third (at least) as would have Clinton.

[BLin]

[ QUOTE ]
For me, it's close between Wilson and FDR, but Wilson takes it for making the worst decision ever made by a US president - entering the US into WWI. The armies of Europe had been kicking the sh*t out of each other for 3 years and had reached a bloody stalemate. In all likelihood, Germany would have eventually had to sue for peace, and some sort of agreement of near equals would have been worked out. Wilson's decision to throw hundreds of thousands of fresh US troops into the mix undoubtedly tipped the scales toward Germany's unconditional surrender. The harsh terms laid out by the Allies doomed the Weimar Republic even before it began and left the door wide open for one Adolph Hitler.

All I want out of our President is to ensure that the nations' borders are defended and to keep Congress in check so they can't be foisting B.S. laws on the American populace. I don't think either major party has a man worthy of the job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say that it's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. You have to remember that these people probably can't see into the future, and I'd like to remind you that there were other nations creating the Treaty of Versailles. It's not like it was purely Wilson's document. Also, I think the Senate's decision to not join the League of Nations (which Wilson wanted to join) caused more damage to the situation than anything Wilson did. Without the US, the League of Nations was completely useless. Not that this would have stopped WWII, but I really don't think anything would have, barring huge revisions to history.

[BLin]

I don't think so. Not after the scandals they both had in their second terms. Opponents would have been drooling over the idea of facing them in an election. Can you imagine the character attacks?

[elwoodblues]

Clinton's scandals were well known toward the end of the first term. He would have beat GWB handily.

Bush Sr. getting elected is a sign, to me, that Reagan would have been re-elected had he been able to run.

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the Senate's decision to not join the League of Nations (which Wilson wanted to join) caused more damage to the situation than anything Wilson did.

[/ QUOTE ]

The key reason the Senate rejected the League was that its charter called for the subordination of our military to International leadership. Wilson and his supporters would not agree to removing this subordination clause.

Note, a few years later, Britain and others got the charter amended on this point, they didn't want to lose their right to control their military either.

The US has never surrendered its sovereignty to the UN in military matters either.

Wilson was unreasonable on this point, and with the provision still in the Charter, the US was right to stay out. Wilson screwed up big time, the fault for the US not joining the League rests squarely on Wilson's shoulders.

[tek]

Wilson the puppet allowed the US to enter WW1. WW1 was the catalyst for WW2, the Holocaust and the entire 70 some year quagmire in the Middle East.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Wilson the puppet allowed the US to enter WW1. WW1 was the catalyst for WW2, the Holocaust and the entire 70 some year quagmire in the Middle East.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Wilson was incapacited and his wife was calling the shots.

[tek]

"Colonel" House was calling the shots with Wilson (and maybe Wilson's wife too) /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[zaxx19]

I would probably have voted for a 3rd Clinton term....

I think he would have overcome the scandals to win. I think in retrospect it would have been disasterous to have the weakest foreign policy president Ive lived under as president in 2001.\\

[istewart]

This many posts and no mention of Hoover?

...

[tek]

Hoover was a self-made millionaire and an engineer. He tried to take steps to avoid the Depression, but was thwarted.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Without the US, the League of Nations was completely useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably would have been completely useless with the US. The League of Nations was a debating society, without even the limited authority to use force that the UN has. And the UN has been mostly, if not completetly useless.

[Felix_Nietsche]

The Democrats successfully blamed the Great Depression on Herbert Hoover and that myth has been passed from generation to generation. Herbert Hoover tried to reform the gross abuses of buying stock on margin which led to the stock market crash but the that authority belong to New York. And who was the governor of New York and resisted stock market reforms? Answer: FDR.

After the 1929 Market crash, Hoover lowered taxes to stimulate the economy. Unfortunately for Hoover, most economists who tout the benefits of tax cuts concede it takes 2 years for the effects of tax cuts to become apparant. During this time, FDR successfully blamed Hoover for making the economy worse and got elected.

The worst 2oth century president is Jimmy Carter who wrecked the economy with 20% interest rates (try buying a house at those rates), sky high inflation, and disasterous foreign policy. The only nice thing I can say about Carter is he is honest. Suposedly he has a genius level IQ, but he didn't strike me as being very smart at all. Maybe it was a case of high IQ and zero common sense.

http://www.toad.net/~falkland/hoover/hoover1.html

[CORed]

Right now I think Bush is in contention, but it is really too early to say for sure. If by some miracle Bush makes this Iraqi venture work (extremely unlikely IMO), he could well be regarded as a great president fifty years from now, much as it pains me to say this. However, I think it is much more likely that he will be regarded as among the worst, if the Iraqi venture plays out as I expect it to, which is that the next president will withdraw without the situation there being substantially better than it is now. The neocon movement seems to think that military power is all that we need to remake the Middle East in our image. They seem to be ignoring the fact that military superiority was not enough to hold together the British and French colonial empires of the 19th and early 20th century. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[dcoles11]

Gore lost to Bush by literally hundreds of votes, Clinton would have defeated Bush if he could have run for a 3rd term, without a doubt.

[dcoles11]

Bush is still in office and he already gets many votes as the worst president of all time. For our country's sake I hope history proves him to not be that bad but I fear 20 years from now GWB will be hands down the worst president of all time.

[The_Individual]

[KLGambiT]

Ahmen to that, hes my second worst, i had to pick Jimmy Carter first, hes just a disgrace.

BTW whoever said Truman is the worst for dropping 2 A-bombs over Japan has to be out of there mind. That saved countless american lives and probably saved japs as well since an invasion of japan couldnt be done without leveling every major city they had.

[swede123]

Buchanan, no doubt about it.

Swede

[mmcd]

If not for his spearheading of the Civil Rights Act and his "War on Poverty" there would be nothing even remotely positive that could be said about his presidency. His conduct re: Vietnam was absolutely dispicable and he permantly damaged this country more than words can possibly express.

Just imagine where this country would be now socio-politically had Johnson either:

A) not involved the United States in a full-scale, half-assed land war in Asia; or

B) took whatever actions necessary to win that conflict quickly and decisively.

Instead, he chose option C and sent many thousands of American soldiers to die in an unnecessary war, and demanded that war be conducted in such a way that victory was impossible.

The political repercussions of his actions are felt to this day and we are a weaker and more deeply divided nation because of them.

LBJ is the reason our (as a nation) reaction to the 9/11 attacks is not analougous to our reaction to the Pearl Harbor attack. We have gone from a nation willing to unite in the cause of destroying our enemies to a nation that is utterly incapable of uniting behind a such a cause in spite of the fact that there are many out there who would like to completely destroy this nation and all it stands for. Of course, any war is a very costly and ugly undertaking, but once we have been attacked and war is called for, we no longer persue victory using "whatever means necessary" rather we persue intractability using "whatever means the current political climate will be willing to accept". And Americans are dying because of it.

[CORed]

I see the "War on poverty" as a negative, too. It was well intentioned, but, by creating a large group of people dependant on government handouts, it hurt the people it was supposed to help. I do give Johnson credit for supporting civil rights, though. I agree completely on Vietnam. We didn't need to get into that war, but when we did get into it, we damn well should have fought to win.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I do remember from history that Andrew Jackson fought several wars with the Creek Indians. The Creek Indians were infamous for their love of war. In Jackson's defense, the Creek Indians were a vicious tribe who were responsible of several Rwanda-like massacres of other indian tribes and American settlers.

Of course, there was no ACLU or liberal Democrats back then so Jackson was able to dispense some "frontier justice". After Jackson got through with them, the Creeks decided that opening casinos was more fun than killing people.....

Shedding tears for the Creeks is like shedding tears for the Nazis....

[rickthekeg]

If people knew what Wilson did with the Fed, he would have every vote.

[Cyrus]

I'm not claiming I'm gonna read the humongous biography (currently at its third tome) of ol' Lyndon, but I've read enough about his bio and background and climb up the ladder of politics. If it weren't for Vietnam (which JFK started), LBJ would probably go down as a truly great President.

Yeah, the cons and the neo-cons hate his guts because he passed all that civil rights legislation and the Great Society laws, so what? They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

[mmcd]

JFK is certainly the most overrated, but LBJ is still the worst. JFK initiated the whole Vietnam fiasco, but Johnson escalated it to the point of a full-scale war, and refused to give the military the tools/options needed to win.

They ask for 100k troops, LBJ gives them 20k. They want to conduct military operations in the north, LBJ says no, etc. etc.

If we had unleashed our full power and capabilities on that little sliver of jungle we could have been out of there by '68 and won.

If we hadn't gotten involved at all, we wouldn't have this culture of protest. People like Michael Moore would be ridiculed rather than embraced by so many.

How many people protested our involvement in WWI, WWII, or the Korean War.

I guarantee you nowadays whenever the U.S. gets into a war, no matter who we are fighting or what it's over, a significant portion of the population will protest rather than rallying behind the cause and showing support for their country.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
If it weren't for Vietnam (which JFK started), LBJ would probably go down as a truly great President.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe US involvement in Nam started before JFK. We sent in "advisors" Special Forces (Green Berets) to train <cough participate> the locals after the French got their azzes whooped (in one battle alone they lost more than we lost in the entire war--not surprisingly.)

JFK actually wanted to get us out (which pissed off all the companies profiting from the war). He also wanted to eliminate or at least scale down the "Federal" Reserve's control of the "monetary" system (which pissed off many rich people). And he also let RFK attack the Mob (who helped get him elected because old man Kennedy was an old time bootlegger and friends of mobsters).

JFK actually tried to do right, which is why he was killed.

[Felix_Nietsche]

http://www.nationalvnwarmuseum.org/chronology.html

"I believe US involvement in Nam started before JFK"
***You believe wrongly. Before JFK there were only contingency plans what the US *MIGHT* do in Vietnam. JFK turned plans into actions. Sorry Charlie....JFK began the US military involvement in Vietnam. No amount of Democratic rewriting of history will spin that away...

"JFK actually wanted to get us out (which pissed off all the companies profiting from the war)."
***Huh!!!??? Why did JFK send troops to Vietnam if he wanted to get us out? JFK was the FIRST US President to send troops into Vietnam. Time to leave the land of make believe....and see the truth. JFK got the US involved in Vietnam.

"He also wanted to eliminate or at least scale down the "Federal" Reserve's control of the "monetary" system (which pissed off many rich people)."
***And Haliburton was so ticked off, they had JFK killed...right? JFK was a tax cutter. He made a speech that cutting taxes would stimulate the economy and he did. JFK was more REPUBLICAN in his financial policy. The only difference was when JFK cut taxes, the Dems didn't spout off about the rich getting richer about tax cuts. This was the days where the top tax bracket was 90%. The rich were very happy that the 90% tax bracket got eliminated...

"JFK actually tried to do right, which is why he was killed."
***JFK had a long list of enemies. The Mafia and Cuba being at the top of the list. LBJ once said the Kennedy tried to get Castro but Castro got him first...

It still amazes me how people worship JFK and invent 'facts' to support their delusions about JFK. JFK is the most over-rated president in US history.

[zaxx19]

It still amazes me how people worship JFK and invent 'facts' to support their delusions about JFK. JFK is the most over-rated president in US history.


First catholic president...dashing, handsome, and well spoken...along with his brother helped progressive civil rights...it really isnt that suprising that he has become sacrosanct in the minds of many.

Personally, I agree on you analysis though.

[mmcd]

If they had the media scrutiny then that they have now, he'd be Bill Clinton, only not as white trashy.

[$DEADSEXE$]

While LBJ made some big mistakes his actions with regard to civil rights were some of the most significant actions ever under taken by any president in our country's history. He did however willingly give up the South to the republicans in doing so but it took serious balls and fortitude to do it becuase he thought it was right.

Bush would be conisdered a amazing presidency if he pulls Iraq off but seeing that his administration is so unwilling to admit any mistakes their most liekly doomed to failure.
Plus its unlikely Iraq would be able to have a democracy without implementing capitalism or at least a weak form of democratic socialism.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Harding, and it isn't even close.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Wilson is the most overrated President of all

Not to mention a complete racist. His first act as president of Princeton was to expel all non-white students.

[jameshamel]

People who say Bush is even comparable to many of our worst presidents are ignorant. I'm sure those same people would hail the advent of the liberal saviors Kennedy and Johnson, not realizing they took Eisenhower's small troop contingent in Vietnam and turned it into an America war with well over 500,000 men, 58,000 of whom never came back.

I think Harding gets a bad wrap, not a great president, but more a victim of events of the day. Carter was inept, as was Wilson, but Buchanan definitely tops my list. They guy can pretty easily be blamed for the Civil War, IMO.

Just my thoughts.

[BLin]

[ QUOTE ]

***Huh!!!??? Why did JFK send troops to Vietnam if he wanted to get us out? JFK was the FIRST US President to send troops into Vietnam. Time to leave the land of make believe....and see the truth. JFK got the US involved in Vietnam.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a lot of insight into the Kennedy administration, but I think Robert McNamara did. He said that Kennedy was ready to pull all of the troops out.

"Mr McNamara, now 84, revealed that like President Kennedy he wanted to pull American advisers out of South Vietnam, and advised Lyndon B Johnson to do so after Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. But Johnson, whom he served until his resignation in 1968 - by which time 25,000 US troops had been killed - overruled him and called him defeatist.

He stopped short , of blaming LBJ for the disaster. 'I'd rather be damned if I don't say,' he said., Later, in previously unaired White House tapes, he endorsed LBJ's decision. 'If Kennedy had lived he would have made a difference.'"

Source (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0523-09.htm)

[BLin]

[ QUOTE ]
After the 1929 Market crash, Hoover lowered taxes to stimulate the economy. Unfortunately for Hoover, most economists who tout the benefits of tax cuts concede it takes 2 years for the effects of tax cuts to become apparant. During this time, FDR successfully blamed Hoover for making the economy worse and got elected.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, those tax cuts were to the upper tax brackets, which did nothing for huge the gap between rich and poor. This gap was a major cause in the Great Depression because the US economy was based on luxury spending by the rich. As soon as confidence in the economy fell in 1929, the rich stopped spending, sending the US deeper into depression. The real problem was confidence, which tax cuts do nothing to aid.

[Felix_Nietsche]

After reading the link, my impression is he is an old man who was crucified, hated, and despised for his role in the Vietnam war. And now he is trying to make himself look better by re-writing history.

Besides, for Kennedy to send troops into Vietnam and then suddenly bring them home....does not pass the smell test.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After the 1929 Market crash, Hoover lowered taxes to stimulate the economy. Unfortunately for Hoover, most economists who tout the benefits of tax cuts concede it takes 2 years for the effects of tax cuts to become apparant. During this time, FDR successfully blamed Hoover for making the economy worse and got elected.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, those tax cuts were to the upper tax brackets, which did nothing for huge the gap between rich and poor. This gap was a major cause in the Great Depression because the US economy was based on luxury spending by the rich. As soon as confidence in the economy fell in 1929, the rich stopped spending, sending the US deeper into depression. The real problem was confidence, which tax cuts do nothing to aid.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that there are similarities to the Roaring 20's/Roaring 90's and the two crashes.

Both periods had cheap interest, increased money supply and irrational exhuberance. They also had a quick spurt of higher interest and tighter money at the peak.

These moves by the Fed seem similar to an over the top re-raise all in against poker fish with a good hand by a player with the nuts...

In other words they were set-ups to take the stock player fishes money by the people in the know. This had a dual purpose of taking the fishes' paper gains and enabling the Players (who cashed out at the top) to rebuy cheap assets during the 1930's/2001-2004.

Discuss.

[Tom Bayes]

As much as I wanted to vote for W., the correct answer is James Buchanan. W makes my bottom 5 with others such as Harding, Pierce, and Fillmore.

[Bez]

If you took this same poll in 20 years time, Bush's vote would have declined significantly. The sitting President is always gonna get most of the votes from the opposing side from whenever the poll is taken.

[BadBoyBenny]

Ok, who's the bastard who voted for my boy Lincoln, and why?

[SinCityGuy]

How could you leave Calvin Coolidge and Warren Harding off of this list?