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Geoff
01-20-2005, 01:05 PM
Haven't posted in awhile and have many issues. Here is one from Party Poker Step 3.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1725)
BB (t395)
UTG (t930)
UTG+1 (t1170)
MP1 <font color="#A500AF">(villain)</font> (t1560)
MP2 (t1648)
CO (t1687)
Hero (t885)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 <font color="#A500AF">(villain)</font> calls t30, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t75</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 <font color="#A500AF">(villain)</font> calls t45.

Flop: (t195) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
villain checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">villain raises to t150</font>

tight play..good players..
fold, call, raise ??

jcm4ccc
01-20-2005, 01:30 PM
Your flop bet screamed weakness, and I think the villian sensed that. I would have bet at least 150 on the flop.

He may have a flush draw, he may have KQ, he may have K with even a weaker kicker. But he has a good read on you, and I don't think you're going to get him to lay his hand down (especially because he has you comfortably covered). I would fold. But I don't think you would have been facing this decision had you made your flop bet stronger.

Geoff
01-20-2005, 01:56 PM
You are correct of course, but I could not bet more after that flop with that hand. Considering my 'style' I should have checked and reacted to the play.

ChrisV
01-20-2005, 07:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You are correct of course, but I could not bet more after that flop with that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth not?

Jason Strasser
01-20-2005, 08:10 PM
Ugh.

First of all, what type of preflop raise is this? The blinds are 15/30, you have a limper, so there is 75 in the pot. You make it 45 more. What the hell does this accomplish?

For starters...

1) You now have lost the chance to bust a big hand. A lot of value with TT comes with flopping a set and busting a bigger hand. TT, as you know, has lots of flops that are uncomfortable to play. Now when u make it 75, aces will make it something like 225 and even with implied odds you have no business even seeing a flop.

2) If you are going to raise preflop, then make a real raise and represent a big hand and take it down on the flop. I rarely do this unless I'm against an extremely loose calling station type who will limp/call with attrocious hands and fold almost all flops. I definitely prefer a limp behind at this stage. But if you do raise, make it 4-4.5xBB, which should be standard with one limper, and then play poker on the flop... Usually this will involve making a good sized bet and taking it down. This is all fine and dandy of course unless you happen to run into a big hand behind you when you will have to fold preflop to a reraise... Which returns me to the fact that limping with TT is preferred.

3) This flop play is attrocious. You got to paint a picture in your opponents have of what type of hand you have. What hand are you trying to represent here?? I'd say you've done a great job represening a hand like TT or 88 or AJ because you've bet a nice wimpy scared flop bet. Expect good tight aggressive players to play back at you all day when you do this. I personally would've raised bigger preflop and taking a nice stab at this flop which only has one overcard. Or I might check behind. There are plenty of options, but betting 1/3 of the pot in a weak fashion vs. an aggressive player WITH a draw on board is poor poker.

-Jason

skoal2k4
01-20-2005, 08:56 PM
I don't think there's much more that needs to be said here. Excellent explanation of how to play a hand like this.

Robbie

Bigwig
01-20-2005, 09:14 PM
Jason, do you always play TT for set value in this scenario at this level? Or is it dependent?

I ask because I'd likely raise it up to 120 or so preflop. The limp came from MP, so they're much less likely to have a big hand, and I've got position. In this scenario, I usually like to thin the field a little, and take over the aggression.

Of course I agree that the preflop &amp; postflop bets were too small.

K C
01-20-2005, 09:26 PM
Very well said Jason. TT is a hand which can get you in trouble one way or the other. And if your opponent is tight aggressive, playing it this way and he'll be all over you.

You're either going to have to go big here or fold after his flop raise. It all comes down to what you're putting him on. Chances are he may be trying to steal the pot from you, and it's not too late to take a stand.

KC
kingcobrapoker.com

Jason Strasser
01-20-2005, 10:22 PM
Bigwig,

I don't always do anything in poker. There have been spots when I'd raise TT or limp TT, and if I was live and saw something I didn't like to my left there are times I would fold preflop to a limp.

That said, my default is definitely a limp here. The issue is that the bigger the pot, you give more inscentive for both you, and your opponents, to make plays at the pot. I personally am usually not comfortable building a big pot with TT here. Secondly, a bigger reason to limp in this position is so that you still have a chance to correctly limp and call a raise from a hand behind you and possibly bust a big hand.

But I guess my answer is dependant. And asking a poker player 'is it dependant' is always going to get a yes because there is almost always something else going on besides the cards in front of you that will affect your decision.

-Jason

P.S. even though the limp came from MP, there is a greater chance it is a big hand because it was an open limp, vs. a limp behind an open limper, which is very rarely a big hand. In spots like this, its more important to have a plan rather than your plan just being to 'take over the aggression'.

Jason Strasser
01-20-2005, 10:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You're either going to have to go big here or fold after his flop raise. It all comes down to what you're putting him on. Chances are he may be trying to steal the pot from you, and it's not too late to take a stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precicely why it isnt my default to raise TT here. You may be playing Russian Roulette instead of poker on the flop.

-Jason