KTs BB maniac + LPs [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

admiralfluff

01-20-2005, 01:59 AM

MP1 is a maniac with 65/35, all of the cold callers are LP in the 35/4-60/0 range. UTG is unknown. please comment on all streets.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Button folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Yobz

01-20-2005, 02:30 AM

Looks good to me, I would have played it the same.

john smith

01-20-2005, 02:43 AM

Looks good to me...

MCS

01-20-2005, 03:30 AM

On the flop, were you just calling if the bet came from your immediate left, or were you planning to checkraise for value as well?

I was gonna say I'd 3-bet the turn, but I really wouldn't. I just want to seem aggressive.

admiralfluff

01-20-2005, 03:47 AM

I think I'd probably check raise for value if the bet came from my immediate left, especially if the maniac stayed in the pot with either a call or raise, but would seriously reconsider if any of the LPs showed aggression.

admiralfluff

01-20-2005, 04:31 AM

MCS, do you not c/r this if it's bet from my left and the maniac folds? What if it's bet from my left and the maniac reraises?

MCS

01-20-2005, 05:12 AM

Okay, so you have a few different possibilities here.

I think you can checkraise for value no matter who bets and who folds if it's just one bet back to you.

If UTG bets and the maniac raises, I 3-bet it when it's back to me.

If the maniac calls a bet and then 3-bets my checkraise, I think I just call and see the turn.

admiralfluff

01-20-2005, 05:14 AM

sounds good, thanks /images/graemlins/grin.gif

evain

01-20-2005, 05:25 AM

Hi Admiral

I think you should bet the flop because you expect the LAG to raise, right? That might get you heads up with him which is better than having five to the turn which is what you get when you raise after four players have called his original bet.

Your best chance of winning this pot his heads up with the maniac. It is a large pot and I don't believe you are protecting your hand with your flop play. You are just offering at least 10/1 on calling your raise which is keeping all gutshots and backdoor draws in. Making them fact two bets cold at least brings it down to 5 or 6 to 1.

Post flop I would have played it the same as you, however.

evain

evain

01-20-2005, 05:27 AM

I think we're forgetting that maniacs get KK and AA sometimes too. The best chance of winning the pot is to get heads up with him with top pair, good kicker, and attack. If he is still raising on the turn, slow down and check/call.

evain

admiralfluff

01-20-2005, 05:40 AM

maniacs do get AA and KK, but when he raises over 30% of his hands and plays them like a demon regardless of the flop I have no reason to give him credit for AA or KK. If I got the pot heads up with the maniac I would certainly cap the flop, bet into a non ace turn card, and then think about calling down if he raised, depending on the turn card.

I did think about betting into him, but the LPs were so loose, passive, weak, and straightforward, that I felt it would be profitable to let them get sucked into the turn, often with 3 outs.

I don't really know if this was correct, and didn;t give it a second thought, as incidentally, the only player I was protecting my hand from posed the real threat. Given normal circumstances I will almost always try to isolate the maniac, which is probably what I should have done here.