Playing Ax and Kx from any position

[Rubber Soul]

I have found through over 95,000 hands at .10/.25 and .25/.50 nl ring games that if I play Ace 9 or lower, and King 9 or lower from any position, I have break even results (limping in... Folding to any raise)... You say why bother... Well, I feel by playing those it gets me more calls and bigger wins when I have far superior hands... Anyone else ever try this strategy??? I play pretty much "by the book" poker besides this one little kink (except I rarely play low or medium suited connectors like some do)... This one little kink seems to seperate me from most "normal" tight aggresive players and I think it gives me an advantage... My overal flop percentage with this strategy is about 30% and my win percentage is about 15%... I am averaging about $5 an hour per table at .25/.50 (95% of my play is at UB)... This also helps in keeping me interested and focused at the tables as I am involved in more hands... Any opinions???

[TheIrishThug]

i too have had ppl be critical of (or at least point out that) my play of Axs or Kxs. however, the fact that i only play them when they r suited is the key. just playing Ax and Kx means u r solely for the high card. the chance for the nut ot 2nd nut flush gives ur hand a much better chance of hitting.
and yes, playing some marginal hands does help u in future hands. u can get paid off better with this idea. i would suggest though that u make sure they are suited.
suited connectors r playable due to some of the same philosophy, so playing mid-suited connectors should get u a few more pots.

[istewart]

Saint!

[Rubber Soul]

Yes, when suited they obviously pay off much more often. But even unsuited they break even for me and give me a loose image. Even the solid players call me when they normally would fold and that once or twice a day when my lower card hits for a set, I win huge pots (this balances out the other plays with these hands)... Well, it works for me and I think it may help disguise my play as I move up...

[rickr]

The only problem I see with this is the greater chance of being dominated. I think I'd rather play the low connectors if I wanted to loosen up my game. Just alittle easier to play when you do hit.

Later,
Rick

[DrPublo]

The real problem is that as you move up in stakes, fewer and fewer pots are not raised preflop. All those limp/folds will surely cost your earn in the long run.

Also as you move up in stakes players dont go crazy on low paired boards and won't pay off your set with K kicker even when you hit it.

Playing inferior starting hands is not the way to make money at NLHE. Sorry to bust your bubble.

The Doc

[Rubber Soul]

At what level would you say my play of these hands would no longer work (perhaps 1/2)...

-

[DrPublo]

Depends on a couple of things...live vs online, which site, etc etc.

I would say that once you get to 1-2 and 2-5 games, your opponents are going to start thinking more about your possible holdings and less along the lines of "I have top pair, I'm going to win!". Flops like K44 or something when you hold A4 are going to stop being as profitable when players stop going broke with TPTK. Also on paired boards like that, suspicious flop calls and turn raises ALWAYS mean trips, and your action is going to dry up.

In addition, you'll see more isolation raises at higher limits. For example, when I see someone open limp in MP and its folded to me on the button, I raise with any two playable cards figuring the limper for either a suited ace or a small-medium PP. When they don't hit the flop (which is the majority of the time) I pick up the pot without contest. If they play back its an easy fold. Once your games begin to get like this playing Ax will be VERY unprofitable.

I think your original post said that over a somewhat significant number of hands, your Ax and Kx hands are roughly breakeven. Then why play them? It seems like you're asking for variance without EV. I suspect you're not realizing how often you limp and then fold, or limp and then check fold the flop. Maybe you should pick an Ax hand at random and keep a tally over the course of a week of times limped, times limp folded, etc. After that tell me if you still want to play them from any position.

The Doc

[Rubber Soul]

Thanks for the info Doc... I think I'll still play them suited (I so often pound the many who play suited connectors with semi-bluffs. And when the flush hits I usually get their whole stack. I'll see what happens with things when trips hit at the higher levels). You revealed something very intersting though. If I don't hit the flop I think I will re-reaise the person who isolated me if it appears obvious they are doing what you said. It could be a great counter bluff move...

[edge]

You could probably win at those levels with a 50% VPIP. Players play very poorly postflop. At higher levels, holding A5 (suited or not) is very marginal, and out of position, you may find yourself check/folding top pair quite often because you can't take the heat on three streets. Just don't bother with it.

[Rubber Soul]

Everyone says it won't work at a higher level... At what level will it cease to work??